357 load development and casual observations

[DMW1116]

I tried out the CFE Pistol loads with the lead wadcutters today. The lowest charge weight was basically just as accurate as the W231 load. The group was slightly bigger but I also could have pulled the 4th shot so I’m calling them even. At 25 yards the group was only 2 shots but it was under 2 inches. That also could have been a nut behind the trigger issue. Now I have 50 twice fired 357 cases and think its time for a 6 on 6 grudge match at 25 yards. One cylinder each to see which is best. Any bets?

 

[AJC1]

I tried out the CFE Pistol loads with the lead wadcutters today. The lowest charge weight was basically just as accurate as the W231 load. The group was slightly bigger but I also could have pulled the 4th shot so I’m calling them even. At 25 yards the group was only 2 shots but it was under 2 inches. That also could have been a nut behind the trigger issue. Now I have 50 twice fired 357 cases and think it time for a 6 on 6 grudge match at 25 yards. One cylinder each to see which is best. Any bets?

Its something I got to test and was pushed out of. I really should load some up.

 

[DMW1116]

After seeing some of the other people having trouble, I'm glad it worked as well as it did. The best group was the lowest charge with all 4 shots going through one slightly larger hole, but still more than acceptable especially for me shooting it one handed out to 25 yards. The load is not the weak link in that case. I also wasn't as careful about aiming point as I was on the W231 tests. It's odd, but it smells slightly better than the W231 too.

 

[AJC1]

Cooked up my first test batch of the rcbs 358-180-sil for the little trapper carbine. Loaded 11.5, 11.8, 12.1 and 12.4 grain loads with 2400. I shot them offhand at 15 yards and literally they all shot great. I dont expect a rifle to print any fidelity at 15 yards but it was a good time. My son would rather shoot 38 special. This bullet is kind of a ptia as it bulges cases at the base of the bullet all the way around. I crimp with the lee factory crimp die and 6 had some sizing done by the ring. I am using the factory seating stem specifically made for this bullet. The rp cases were the major offenders, which I observed my first go around with this bullet. I will load up my federal test batch of brass my next go round and hopefully have less issues. I purposely mixed headstamps looking for problems with cases.

 

[DMW1116]

I so want a 357 rifle now just stuff like this.

 

[AJC1]

I so want a 357 rifle now just stuff like this.

They have a new Winchester trapper 357 like my little Marlin they are asking 1599.00 at shoot point blank. I almost choked. If your looking the cowboy model with the long octagon barrel and full length magazine tube is where my money would go. The trapper is more young adult size and is fantastic for my 13 yo to learn shooting off hand.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I so want a 357 rifle now just stuff like this.

When prices for Marlin ‘94’s went ballistic I sold mine. A couple years later I got interested in single shot rifle and bought a H&R HandiRifle in .30-30, then another in .500S&W, then .357Mag which I had rearmed to .357Max. In total I had seven NEF/H&R top break rifles. The only two left are a Hornet and the .357. I highly recommend checking into a single shot. Less money for more fun.

 

[AJC1]

When prices for Marlin ‘94’s went ballistic I sold mine. A couple years later I got interested in single shot rifle and bought a H&R HandiRifle in .30-30, then another in .500S&W, then .357Mag which I had rearmed to .357Max. In total I had seven NEF/H&R top break rifles. The only two left are a Hornet and the .357. I highly recommend checking into a single shot. Less money for more fun.

I have considered many times a barrel swapping single shot like fortunecookie45lc has. I guess the model he uses has been eliminated from production but still has good support. The barrels were basically cheaper than a new savage barrel and waaay faster to change.

 

[Shivahasagun]

I got my bottle of Ramshot Enforcer.

They changed the look of the bottle!

I thought the old label with a big, blued revolver with walnut grips and cool font of "ENFORCER" just looked cool!

But the fresh 1 lb bottle I received just says "ENFORCER" and "Pistol Powder" with a large image of a Ram and at the bottom? A little white silhouette of....1911 pistol.

On the back it describes how great the powder is for magnum cartridges. .44 mag, .460, .500, etc. So the label went from cool to not cool and a little inaccurate. Oh well.

ALSO. The website says Enforcer is made in Belgium. My bottle says it was made in Canada.

Anyway, I'm going to load up new Starline cases with CCI SPP, 158 gr XTP JHP bullets, a 1.585 OAL, good roll crimp and:
13.3 gr, 13.5 gr, and 13.7 gr of Ramshot Enforcer.

I'm not wanting to push my luck or my gun, but I think I'm leaving enough safety margin and hoping to average 1075-1100 fps with my 3-inch King Cobra. I don't expect accuracy to be a problem.

AJC1,

I noticed your Nosler manual shows 13.7 gr of Enforcer a max load. The Lee manual shows 14.0 gr as max. Just something I noticed.

 

[AJC1]

I got my bottle of Ramshot Enforcer.

They changed the look of the bottle!

I thought the old label with a big, blued revolver with walnut grips and cool font of "ENFORCER" just looked cool!

But the fresh 1 lb bottle I received just says "ENFORCER" and "Pistol Powder" with a large image of a Ram and at the bottom? A little white silhouette of....1911 pistol.

On the back it describes how great the powder is for magnum cartridges. .44 mag, .460, .500, etc. So the label went from cool to not cool and a little inaccurate. Oh well.

Anyway, I'm going to load up new Starline cases with CCI SPP, 158 gr XTP JHP bullets, a 1.585 OAL, good roll crimp and:
13.3 gr, 13.5 gr, and 13.7 gr of Ramshot Enforcer.

I'm not wanting to push my luck or my gun, but I think I'm leaving enough safety margin and hoping to average 1075-1100 fps with my 3-inch King Cobra. I don't expect accuracy to be a problem.

AJC1,

I noticed your Nosler manual shows 13.7 gr of Enforcer a max load. The Lee manual shows 14.0 gr as max. Just something I noticed.

The bullet may be different and what pressure limit they stopped at. The ramshot, lyman and lee books all list pressure, so I use that as a big part of my evaluation. Sammi max is 35,000 psi. Cup and psi are not interchangeable

 

[DMW1116]

I did the showdown today between the CFE Pistol and W231 using the Hornady lead hollow base wadcutters. I haven’t measured the groups but today the CFE Pistol load was the winner. I’m kinda shocked. I won’t say which is more accurate as I can’t really tell or can’t shoot well enough to tell. I’ll post some pictures later but the CFE load is what I’ll stick with for now.

I also got some 158 grain XTP bullets to load try. I don’t have any brass to try them in now but will soon.

 

[DMW1116]

As promised here are some pictures.

The five shots by the 8 are about 1.25 inches shot from a Matrix rest at 25 yards. The three in the middle were shot the same way after a much needed sight adjustment.


This was shot off hand at 50 ft. Group 1 was the CFE Pistol load and 2 was the W231 load so it won out this round.


This was 10 yards off hand and has 2 shots of each. The Queen didn’t fare well, but it doesn’t tell me any difference between the loads. Those wadcutters make about the nicest holes you’d ever want.

I kinda think the CFE Pistol load has a slight advantage but it would take a lot of shooting to be certain. I’ll stick with the CFE Pistol load and see how that works. I have enough CFE-P to make plenty of these and have a couple of experiments with 30-30 and W231 I might try.

In the load data on Hodgdens site CFE-P offers similar velocity as 2400 with 158 grain bullets. If it shoots well there I may have a serious strain on my CFE-P supply. That load takes a lot more.

 

[wvfarrier]

Ive found recently that I REALLY like Longshot for 38 +p loads. Im getting much better accuracy and velocity while keeping the pressures down. I took my black bear this year using a Win 92 Deluxe 357. The load was a 158 grain nosler jsp pushed by a stout load of Lil Gun.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Skeeters 13.5 of 2400 ,non mag primer with Xtp Fp and a Cast of around 18Bh ,powder coated. Works excellent in my Marlin and 4” 686. A bit of Flash out of the 4” (1200fps).Yet excellent in the 18.5” Carbine (1700fps estimated). I’ve tried H110/296 - Lil Gun…. Yet 2400 seems to be a good powder when I want one load for both. Cast and Jacketed seem to shoot equally well and to same point of aim. Lucky I suppose. My Progressive can pump
These out with a quickness and I feel they are A lot of fun.

 

[nofendertom]

The Skeeter load with a hard cast 158gr LSWC has been my .357mag load for years. It was accurate in my Mod 28 4in as well as a Marlin lever.

 

[Charlie98]

I highly recommend checking into a single shot. Less money for more fun.

I finally got hold of an H&R Classic Hunter in .45 Colt... it is so much stupid fun, it should be outlawed. I call it my baby .45-70. Not nearly as much work to shoot as my Pedersoli 1885, but still gives you that satisfying whack in both the shoulder... and the target, as only a big bore bullet can do. I'd love to have one in .41MAG... but that would be a custom job, for sure. A .30-30 or .308 with cast might be fun, too...

 

[DMW1116]

I see Lil’ Gun on Hodgdens website but don’t see it in my other references. If I could find some and some magnum primers I’d try it. I’m off to review Gunblue490’s guide to developing handgun loads. I really want to try these 158 grain bullets.

 

[wvfarrier]

I see Lil’ Gun on Hodgdens website but don’t see it in my other references. If I could find some and some magnum primers I’d try it. I’m off to review Gunblue490’s guide to developing handgun loads. I really want to try these 158 grain bullets.

Its in my Lyman manual and my Hornady
I can screen shot them for you if you want

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

A .30-30 or .308 with cast might be fun, too...

I had one. Sold it for some reason. Don’t recall why but it was a big mistake. Great little blind gun.

 

[DMW1116]

Its in my Lyman manual and my Hornady
I can screen shot them for you if you want

Thats one of my references. What edition do you have? I’m also using the 11th edition of the Hornady app and don’t see it there either.

 

[wvfarrier]

Thats one of my references. What edition do you have? I’m also using the 11th edition of the Hornady app and don’t see it there either.

I stand corrected. It only lists Lil Gun for the jacketed loads. Even my "One Book/One Caliber" manual doesnt list Lil Gun for cast bullets. I wouldve sworn I had seen it the data but I guess Im getting senile.

 

[Seedy Character]

I like L'il Gun in .357M, .41M, .44M and .45C
Makes some excellent deer and hog loads

 

[DMW1116]

It’s an interesting powder for that application. Previously I’d just heard of people using it in rifles like 243 Winchester and 6.5 Grendel.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Lil gun is great…. For carbines. I can’t recall the article that was written by a famous Gunsmith/ yet he stated that it was eroding away the forcing cones. Also it would really heat up the bore. I believe Freedom arms stated not to use in there firearms.
H110 and 296 can get similar Fps and I will use those in my K frame sparingly with a 158gr, that will not cause to much of a issue. Tho, in my Marlin- Lil gun can produce some serious numbers, Yet the Pistol bullets can’t stay together at those speeds.

Just my 2 sense

 

[Bfh_auto]

It’s an interesting powder for that application. Previously I’d just heard of people using it in rifles like 243 Winchester and 6.5 Grendel.

Are you thinking of cfe223?
It's very different than CFE pistol.