357 load development and casual observations

[wvfarrier]

CFE Pistol is VERY temperature sensitive in my experience.

 

[DMW1116]

I was referring to Lil Gun as interesting. I do plan to try CFE Pistol but I’m starting with Alliant 2400. I’ll have to wait to summer to see how temp sensitive CFE Pistol is. My load using it in 357 just came about last weekend.

 

[AJC1]

I was referring to Lil Gun as interesting. I do plan to try CFE Pistol but I’m starting with Alliant 2400. I’ll have to wait to summer to see how temp sensitive CFE Pistol is. My load using it in 357 just came about last weekend.

2400 is a favorite of many in 357. I know I like it a lot for full house loads. You may want a second powder that is a middle of the road magnum, that isnt so blasty. Besides powder isnt exactly buy what you want right now so a seamless transition to another load you have worked up is nice.

 

[Bill M.]

My smallest groups for my .357 and my .41 Mag have been with LilGun.

 

[westernrover]

What is the measurement critera? Are you using a chronograph? If you're measuring group size are you using a Ransom Rest? Shooting off a bag? Using a dot or scope?

 

[Bill M.]

Dot. Improvised rest for arms or wrist. 25 yards. I just find the smallest group for the day and check it. Not trying to make a case for anything. But...If I had to shoot 1 small group for some reason in my Blackhawk the Lil Gun loads would give me the best chance. Maybe I am paying better attention because of the recoil. It surprised me. I thought the weak, slow poppers would be the ticket. None of my accuracy is down to what the load is capable of, I think. I am more testing my reaction to the loading. Different results in my DA gun but I struggle with the sights on it.

 

[DMW1116]

2400 is a favorite of many in 357. I know I like it a lot for full house loads. You may want a second powder that is a middle of the road magnum, that isnt so blasty. Besides powder isnt exactly buy what you want right now so a seamless transition to another load you have worked up is nice.

It’s listed in the Lyman manual as the most accurate powder for several bullets. I also want to try some cast lead semiwadcutters and those will likely be a middle of the road load for me. For now though, what’s the use in having a 357 magnum if I don’t have a full strength magnum load? My sources max out a little above 14 grains of 2400 but I’m stopping at upper middle 13+ to see what that’s like first. I may decide I don’t want anything to do with a full power load except in the most dire circumstances.

 

[barnfrog]

Quite a trove of info treasure in this thread. I'm in the process of buying a Ruger Blackhawk from a co-worker and am looking at components. I have four different bullets and a pound and a half of Unique that I picked up with a bunch of other reloading stuff. Four pounds of Universal on the way as well. After I put the gun through it's paces with those I'll be looking to work up a hunting load. Was thinking No. 9 or 2400, but there are obviously other options to consider. Sure will be fun testing them!

 

[DMW1116]

I’d recommend a Blackhawk every day and twice on Sunday. It’s difficult to overstate how much I’ve enjoyed mine and I just got it in October. I don’t know how I overlooked them when I started searching for a longer range hand gun. The huge variety and capability of a 357 Mag/38 Special revolver doesn’t hurt either.

 

[Shivahasagun]

I have an update with my first experience with Ramshot Enforcer loading .357 magnum in my New Colt King Cobra 3 inch.

Hornady 158 gr XTP, new Starline brass, CCI SPP, OAL 1.59 in. Each charge weighed on Lee beam scale.

My 2nd Ed. Lee manual says I can go to 14.0 grs for 34K psi.

I started with 13.3 grs and measured 6 shots. (results same as 6.8 grs of CFEP.)
1027, 999, 981, 974, 937, 874.
Avg. 964
ES 153 (Yuck)

Then 13.5 grs:
999, 958, 951, 947, 927, 915
Avg. 949
ES 84

Then 13.7 grs:
1043, 1020, 1019, 1013, 994, 994
Avg. 1013
ES 49

Now I'm getting somewhere. Still not the 1075-1100 average I'd like but I have another .3 grns to go.
Accuracy for all 30 rounds fired was excellent.
Cases ejected easily!
Recoil was moderate as was muzzle blast. Some flame but not bad, either.

I'll keep going and load up 13.8, 13.9 and 14.0. Or should I not mess with the max 14.0?

Anyway, that's where I'm at.

 

[barnfrog]

I’d recommend a Blackhawk every day and twice on Sunday. It’s difficult to overstate how much I’ve enjoyed mine and I just got it in October. I don’t know how I overlooked them when I started searching for a longer range hand gun. The huge variety and capability of a 357 Mag/38 Special revolver doesn’t hurt either.

I would have passed this one up, but the S&W Model 19 I had my eye on got sold. I still love the 19, as it matches the Model 17 that was my dad's. I'll pick one up one of these days. I didn't really like the look of the BH, but the more I read about them the better I liked them. Really just can't be beat. Added bonus: this one is the .357/.38/9mm convertible.

 

[joneb]

I'll keep going and load up 13.8, 13.9 and 14.0. Or should I not mess with the max 14.0?

It's hard to say, I tried Accurate #9 for a 2.75" revolver with 158gr XTP. I started with a data set with a 12.4gr max.charge which yielded poor results, I jumped to a upper end data set with a 14gr max.charge that produced excellent results at 13.7gr.
The 13.7gr gave 1200+fps in the short barrel from a Ruger Security Six.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Quite a trove of info treasure in this thread. I'm in the process of buying a Ruger Blackhawk from a co-worker and am looking at components. I have four different bullets and a pound and a half of Unique that I picked up with a bunch of other reloading stuff. Four pounds of Universal on the way as well. After I put the gun through it's paces with those I'll be looking to work up a hunting load. Was thinking No. 9 or 2400, but there are obviously other options to consider. Sure will be fun testing them!

Unique and universal are excellent choices for 357. Universal was the first powder I started with. Are years of searching for something"better". I realized I wasn't missing much with my first choice.

 

[westernrover]

What is the measurement critera? Are you using a chronograph? If you're measuring group size are you using a Ransom Rest? Shooting off a bag? Using a dot or scope?

This question was particularly in reference to the original post and anyone shooting groups to evaluate various loads.

I see groups as big as my palm on paper where it's indicated it was shot at 10 yards and this repeated for a whole ladder. I don't get it. How can the difference between 13.5 grains of powder and 14.0 grains of powder be evaluated if you're not shooting more consistently than that?

 

[Shivahasagun]

This question was particularly in reference to the original post and anyone shooting groups to evaluate various loads.

I see groups as big as my palm on paper where it's indicated it was shot at 10 yards and this repeated for a whole ladder. I don't get it. How can the difference between 13.5 grains of powder and 14.0 grains of powder be evaluated if you're not shooting more consistently than that?

I shoot off a bag at 7 yds. "Excellent" means all in / touching the 10 ring.

It's just a start of course. The big test for me is 10 rds at 25 yds. freehand. That will really indicate what me, the gun, and ammo are capable of.

 

[AJC1]

Well true blue was a total disappointment. The first issue is my chargemaster bound up and stop metering. I have never had issues with it before so that's a huge minus. Ran the full ladder of 7.6-8.4 as listed in the ramshot manual. 8.0 shot the best and 8.2 had really bad extraction. I fired 1 round of 8.4 and was done. My bullets are a little heavy at 194 so I did not expect to be perfect. The powder itself is very fine balls.

 

[AJC1]

This question was particularly in reference to the original post and anyone shooting groups to evaluate various loads.

I see groups as big as my palm on paper where it's indicated it was shot at 10 yards and this repeated for a whole ladder. I don't get it. How can the difference between 13.5 grains of powder and 14.0 grains of powder be evaluated if you're not shooting more consistently than that?

Maybe you missed the title casual observations.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I

Well true blue was a total disappointment. The first issue is my chargemaster bound up and stop metering. I have never had issues with it before so that's a huge minus. Ran the full ladder of 7.6-8.4 as listed in the ramshot manual. 8.0 shot the best and 8.2 had really bad extraction. I fired 1 round of 8.4 and was done. My bullets are a little heavy at 194 so I did not expect to be perfect. The powder itself is very fine balls.

t a much better fit for mid-to-high .38Spl loads IMO.

 

[AJC1]

I

t a much better fit for mid-to-high .38Spl loads IMO.

I still had some unburnt little balls like I get with #9. With loads so close to silhouette I would choose that powder every time first. The fact ramshot doesn't list 357 loads is driving me mad. I'll work up a 2400 load and see how that pans out for the 180. I didnt really understand how different true blue and blue dot were until I had and was using it. Honestly becoming a hater of ball powders.

The good news is my 180s all hammered appart not leaving the gas check behind. That's a real pain to deal with.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I still had some unburnt little balls like I get with #9. With loads so close to silhouette I would choose that powder every time first. The fact ramshot doesn't list 357 loads is driving me mad. I'll work up a 2400 load and see how that pans out for the 180. I didnt really understand how different true blue and blue dot were until I had and was using it. Honestly becoming a hater of ball powders.

The good news is my 180s all hammered appart not leaving the gas check behind. That's a real pain to deal with.

I am a hater of ball powder in low case fill loads.
If they're compressed or near compressed. They work.

 

[DMW1116]

I got my 158 grain XTP loads ready up to 13.7 grains of 2400. The max in the Lyman Manual is 14.7 and Hornady lists 14.3. I’m using the Hornady load as maximum for now. I will have to clear out some more factory brass. The 142 grain FMJTC load is the hottest I’ve tried in a handgun by a fair margin. The box velocity is 1450 fps but I bet that was a 10” barrel compared to my 6.5” Blackhawk.

 

[AJC1]

I got my 158 grain XTP loads ready up to 13.7 grains of 2400. The max in the Lyman Manual is 14.7 and Hornady lists 14.3. I’m using the Hornady load as maximum for now. I will have to clear out some more factory brass. The 142 grain FMJTC load is the hottest I’ve tried in a handgun by a fair margin. The box velocity is 1450 fps but I bet that was a 10” barrel compared to my 6.5” Blackhawk.

13.9 was my best with a 158 so far but that was my cast and a jsp. I plan to load another ladder moving up haven't got to it yet. So many powders to play with.

 

[Shivahasagun]

How would Ramshot Enforcer work with a 125 gr XTP JHP? Too slow a powder?

It seems this bullet at about 1150 fps does well for personal defense use. That would be an easy mark for my 3 inch Colt.

 

[AJC1]

How would Ramshot Enforcer work with a 125 gr XTP JHP? Too slow a powder?

It seems this bullet at about 1150 fps does well for personal defense use. That would be an easy mark for my 3 inch Colt.

Your getting in the light bullet slow powder top strap killing area I avoid. That particular combination may not have issues but I stay above 140s or use powder unique or faster for lighter bullets.

 

[Shivahasagun]

Your getting in the light bullet slow powder top strap killing area I avoid. That particular combination may not have issues but I stay above 140s or use powder unique or faster for lighter bullets.

Thanks!
Perhaps CFEP would be better.