357 load development and casual observations

[AJC1]

Hi guys! I thought I'd drop in and share some experience and results with 2400 and 158gr bullets.

Firstly, most of my .357 mag loading was several years ago, when I was less cautious and less experienced. But I have loaded an SNS Casting 158gr coated LSWC with 2400. I got as high as 15.5gr with 2400. That was scary. But I've shot many loads with 14.5gr and had no issues whatsoever. QL goes a little wonky when I put that data in, and tells me it's a compressed load at 105.6% and 47,855psi. I can hear the powder moving when I shake a cartridge. QL does not seem to like 2400. It tells me the same kind of story with a 158gr XTP....but we'll get to that.

Accuracy of the LSWC and 14.5gr of 2400 is pretty reasonable as I recall. I've shot many of them through my various GPs, and an SP101. Zero problems. But my notes do not indicate that I completed an accuracy evaluation from a bag, and I have never run them over a chronograph. Not surprising as this was the first load I ever worked up. I plan to chrono some this week, and I really should check accuracy too, but I just might not get to that.

Now for the 158gr XTP. Lyman 50th claims 14.9gr is max even though Hornady is lower. I ran 14.5gr and 15.0gr over the chronograph, and did an accuracy evaluation for both. However, my notes on this load aren't great either. All they say is that the 14.5gr group had slightly better accuracy overall with 10 shots at 1.75" - 2" shooting off a bag at 25 yards (because apparently I didn't care enough to measure it exactly). But the higher load of 15.0gr had a very tight cluster of 6 out of 10 shots. The other 4 made it the larger group, but that could have been my-flinching-fault. The chrono results went the other way, so I cut it back to the 14.9gr in the book and called it good. Figuring 0.1gr couldn't make much of a difference but why tempt fate.

All testing for this load was done with a 4.2" GP100.

14.5gr:
Average - 1245
E.S. - 76
S.D. - 27

15.0gr:
Average - 1252
E.S. - 45
S.D. - 20

I'll chrono the LSWC/2400 load when I can, and a load using the same bullet but 6.5-6.7gr of Unique.

I love 7.0 grains unique with my noe 154 cast.

 

[WrongHanded]

I love 7.0 grains unique with my noe 154 cast.

I try to keep my Unique loads below max because it doesn't meter terribly well and all of them are range loads that I bang out without too much attention to the charge weight. So I find a charge I'm fairly happy with that is safely below max, and then if it runs a little on the high side, I don't have to worry. I still weight every charge, because I just refill the pan and set it on the scale as I finish the current cartridge and begin the next. But if it heavy (unless it really heavy), I don't worry about it.

I suppose I'd feel very differently if I were loading for best accuracy though.

 

[AJC1]

I try to keep my Unique loads below max because it doesn't meter terribly well and all of them are range loads that I bang out without too much attention to the charge weight. So I find a charge I'm fairly happy with that is safely below max, and then if it runs a little on the high side, I don't have to worry. I still weight every charge, because I just refill the pan and set it on the scale as I finish the current cartridge and begin the next. But if it heavy (unless it really heavy), I don't worry about it.

I suppose I'd feel very differently if I were loading for best accuracy though.

I do cheat by using a charge Master and weighing every charge.

 

[enine]

Was at an "antique store" and picked up a Lyman 357446 mold and handles. Its a 162grain bullet and I'm not finding a lot of load data for it. I'm wondering then is this an obsolete bullet, should I bother with it? Or should I say 162 is close enough to 158, make a starting load and test it.

 

[AJC1]

Was at an "antique store" and picked up a Lyman 357446 mold and handles. Its a 162grain bullet and I'm not finding a lot of load data for it. I'm wondering then is this an obsolete bullet, should I bother with it? Or should I say 162 is close enough to 158, make a starting load and test it.

Cast a few up and test them... the older Lyman manuals have loads for all bullet weights...

 

[enine]

Cast a few up and test them... the older Lyman manuals have loads for all bullet weights...

I have not cast any yet, this will be my first. I bought some local casted 158g lead at a local store before to test out some loads. I'll need to buy lead, etc, but had planned to eventually anyway so when I saw those handles sticking out I grabbed it. I'll hunt for some older lyman manuals.

 

[Bearded Phil]

If they drop close to ~160gr there's ostensibly no reason you can't use 158gr data if you start from the bottom.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have not cast any yet, this will be my first. I bought some local casted 158g lead at a local store before to test out some loads. I'll need to buy lead, etc, but had planned to eventually anyway so when I saw those handles sticking out I grabbed it. I'll hunt for some older lyman manuals.

Ideal No.40, 1955

Lymans called it a 156gr. Cast Plain Base - that's with #2 Alloy (5-5-90) so a cast with higher lead content will be heavier.

 

[enine]

Ahh yeah, I found a Lyman/Ideal #38 that says they are 156g. This page was the first I had found when I searched for 357446 and it said 162 http://three-peaks.net/Lyman_and_Ideal_Bullet_Molds.pdf

I posted my results of a 158g XTP Accurate #9 before

 

[AJC1]

Ahh yeah, I found a Lyman/Ideal #38 that says they are 156g. This page was the first I had found when I searched for 357446 and it said 162 http://three-peaks.net/Lyman_and_Ideal_Bullet_Molds.pdf

I posted my results of a 158g XTP Accurate #9 before

That's a plain base bullet, save tons of money not buying gas checks.....

 

[Bearded Phil]

Speaking of plain base bullets

I loaded up 50ea of the 158gr FP from SNS that @Soonerpesek sent me to try out, they are plain base and all the other types from SNS that i've tried have been bevel base. I'm curious to see if i'll see a increase in performance for the better. They did seem to load with less run-out compared to the bevel base but maybe I just did a real good job this time.

Over all length with 1.28" trim came to 1.607" but I had no problems chambering in my Henry so should be good. I was a little worried at first because I had some hang-ups but after a crimping it went in like butter.

I4227- 10ea rounds- 14.4, 14.8, 15.2, 15.6 & 16.0gr weights. Will report back after the range tomorrow.

 

[WrongHanded]

I updated post #350 with chrono results. And found this message whilst out at the impromptu range doing testing.


Words to live by.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Owner of the range gave me these after I was done shooting the M1 Carbine.

 

[Bearded Phil]

Had a decent outing with the SNS 158gr FP and I4227 today. Going to load up the other 50 I have and shoot them too before I start drawing any definite conclusions but they performed on par with if not better than RN and RNFP. Have to measure some groups a little later.

 

[DMW1116]

Do any of you shoot a PCC and revolver in 357? If so do you have different loads for each?

 

[Bfh_auto]

Do any of you shoot a PCC and revolver in 357? If so do you have different loads for each?

Yes and I just use 180s with H110 in both.
I experimented with having a pistol load. But it's easier when both shoot the same one well.

 

[enine]

If anyone wants I did a quick extract/append with imagemagick to make one a page Lyman 40 .357

 

[Bearded Phil]

Did some testing with MBC 180gr WFN this last Saturday. Seems like slower has the better accuracy. At 1500+ FPS groups really opened up.


The set up:
Henry H012GM- .357 Mag- 20" barrel- 1:16- Skinner peep w/ .04" aperture & front patridge blade sight
50yrds- Front Rest: Caldwell Rock Jr w/ wooden planks to raise max elevation (room for lever on bench)-
Rear: Shouldered ~95 degrees
Winds: moderate, from the rear and left to right. Gusts of ~ 15mph

MBC 180gr WFN- 10rds each charge. 5rds each color, grey and gold finish. The grey measured out to .358 with calipers and gold measured out to .359. (Just one of the inconsistencies with MBC that puts me off from buying more, all were supposed to be sized to .358")
Powder- IMR 4227
Case: GFL
Primer: Federal SPM
COL: 1.596"

X= First 5rds- grey- sized .358"
0= Second 5rds- gold- sized .359"

13.0gr
X- 1380 FPS
SD: 15.64
ES: 36
6-1/8" (1-1/2" W/O 1 LOW)

O- 1386 FPS
SD: 11.45
ES: 29
3-1/16" (1-3/8" W/O 1 HIGH)

13.3GR
X- 1418 FPS
SD: 14.67
ES: 40
4-3/4" (2-1/2" W/O 1 LOW)

O- 1417 FPS
SD: 16.70
ES: 40
2-1/8"

180gr WFN- I4227- 13.0 & 13.3

• Bearded Phil
• Jun 7, 2022

13.6GR
X- 1445 FPS
SD: 14.37
ES: 34
4-1/8"

O- 1461 FPS
SD: 7.19
ES: 17
1-7/8"

13.9GR
X- 1469 FPS
SD: 9.01
ES: 24
2-1/2"

O- 1485 FPS
SD: 10.43
ES: 25
4-3/4"

180gr WFN- I4227- 13.6 & 13.9

• Bearded Phil
• Jun 7, 2022

14.2GR
X- 1505 FPS
SD: 9.80
ES: 21
7-1/2"

O- 1536 FPS
SD: 4.93
ES: 12
6-1/4"

180gr WFN- I4227- 14.0

• Bearded Phil
• Jun 7, 2022

The previews on my target pics are showing upside down for some reason but if you click on them it will show right side up.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Looks to me that the Henry shows a decided preference for the .359" bullets...

Edited to 359". It's what I meant to type, but fat fingers...

 

[Bearded Phil]

Looks to me that the Henry shows a decided preference for the .358" bullets...

It kind of seems to waffle between the .358 & .359. It's hard to tell if it's the bullets or my shooting. This set of 50 came at the end of a 6hr range session so my focus and stamina might not have been on par when I shot these.

Like the 13.6gr for example, .358 size the group was 4-1/8" but the .359 group was 1-7/8". Was that me or the bullet diameter? Dunno yet.

I have another 50 of these bullets to test so I'm going to do this again but this time 13.0gr and up to 13.5gr in .1gr increments. I'm not sure if I have a totally even split between the two different sized bullets left but I'll get it as close as possible.

 

[DMW1116]

I started testing with a Gallant 125 grain cast RNFP today using HS-6 powder. Nothing horrible but nothing too impressive either. I have 2 loads that might be worth trying again but they don’t appear to be as accurate as the same bullet in 38 Special using Silhouette powder.

I’ll try some other powders before relegating these to 38 Special only. Any guesses as to the best choice for magnum level velocity and good accuracy choosing from 2400, W231, and CFE Pistol?

 

[AJC1]

I started testing with a Gallant 125 grain cast RNFP today using HS-6 powder. Nothing horrible but nothing too impressive either. I have 2 loads that might be worth trying again but they don’t appear to be as accurate as the same bullet in 38 Special using Silhouette powder.

I’ll try some other powders before relegating these to 38 Special only. Any guesses as to the best choice for magnum level velocity and good accuracy choosing from 2400, W231, and CFE Pistol?

Try 9.0 grains of Silhouette and work up...

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I started testing with a Gallant 125 grain cast RNFP today using HS-6 powder. Nothing horrible but nothing too impressive either.

I find that HS-6 works better with heavy for cartridge bullets.
In 38/357 it works better with 158+ grain bullets.

 

[DMW1116]

HS-6 seems to run into pressure issues before others I’ve tried in 357 Magnum n this gun. As an example, Hodgden lists the pressure quite a bit higher than Enforcer for the same velocity and bullet weight.

Accuracy is what I’m after at magnum velocity for longer range shooting. I’d like 1.5” or less at 25 yards or 3/8”-1/2” at 10 yards. I have 4 loads that will do it, one with this bullet in 38 Special. It may be this bullet just doesn’t do well with the velocity increase. One of the loads is HS-6 and a 125 grain XTP that runs about 1.25”. It’s just below max charge.

 

[DMW1116]

I also find HS-6 works best with near max charges. I may change my mind with a 158 grain cast bullet.