.357 mag and overpenetration

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Robert B

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I have a .357 snub, and I plan on running 125 gr .357 Gold dots in it. I found a lot of velocities out of the SP101 2 1/4 inch bbls on the internet. They range from 1200+ to 1250. That might give me about 1220 fps out of my model 60. I have a Speer catalog from 2008. It shows this round penetrating 15-23 inches at a velocity of 1189 fps. The catalog shows expansion from .55 to .40 depending on bare gel versus heavy clothing.

What do you guys/gals think about using this round? How about overpenetration issues? Thanks.
 
I think that round is the closest thing to a magic 'one shot stop' you can get. Concentrate on hitting your target center of mass and stop worrying about over penetration. Even if you do get a through and through, the bullet won't have much energy left when it exits.
 
.357 has been used as a defense round successfully for a long time. Yes, overpenetration is a possibility. If it was really a big problem though, you'd here about associated injuries in the news, and CC would probably be more restrictive on caliber.

You're worrying too much.

If you really are worried because you live in a heavily populated place, carrying 38 special or 38 special+p ammo will lessen the chance of collateral damage.
 
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The granddaddy of that load was the go to load for LE back in the 70's & 80's. If it really was an issue, there would be a lot of incidents from back then. There isn't.
 
After working with inmates, I can tell you that I do not worry at all about "over-penetration". My carry round in both my 2" and 5" .357 revolvers is the 140 grain Barnes Bullet. I want to know that the bullet penetrate deep enough to hit the heart or CNS from any angle, even if you have to shoot them through the arse to get it there.
 
I've found a 140 to work a lot better in short barrels. I don't care much for the 125 grain weight, hard on forcing cones and all bang and little go in short barrels in my chronograph testing. 18 grains of 2400 behind a 125 and I got under 1200 fps in my SP101. 17.5 grains 2400 behind a 140 Speer (very accurate bullet) gave me mid 1300s fps.

I don't know about penetration, but I trust it's enough. :D
 
I'm not sure I know what overpenetration really means. I'm aware of standards for minimal penetration as made by the FBI. I do hear or read that term "overpenetration" being used on the internet from time to time. I'm a fan of penetration. If I could properly carry and be defensive proficient with a 44 mag I would. However, the 45 automatic and 40 S&W are my preferred calibers to carry. Nothing wrong with the .357 mag.
 
I, too keep reading over and over again about people stressing about "overpenetration". The biggest cause of bystander injuries is not "overpenetration" after hitting a suspect with a bullet, it's missing the target altogether.

A person may possibly be injured by a bullet that has penetrated a suspect, and one may be able to Google a few instances to see it happens once in a blue moon somewhere in the US, but worrying about that should be the last concern you have when it comes to using a firearm for self defense. (In the past 23 years of urban Southern California LE, I have yet to find one instance of this occurring in my neck of the woods.)

Your .357 magnum load of choice should be a fine one. Because you are choosing a stout recoiling and loud banging cartridge in very small and light packages (compared to a 4" L frame, for example), you will need LOTS of range time to become competent (and confident) with your firearm.

Once you are comfortable with it, that load will be up to the task.
 
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I don't worry about overpenetration for the reasons already stated. IMO Overpenetration just means the bad-guy is going to be bleeding from two holes instead of one.
 
I find maintaining control and shot placement under the extreme pressure of a self-defense situation are much larger concerns for me than anything else.
Find a hollow point load that will let you put 5 rounds into a 4" circle at 10 feet in less tha 5 seconds and forget the rest.
 
Missing and hitting a bystander with a stray shot is more of a problem but everyone worries about overpenetration.
The real questions are:
Can you shoot this round accurately in the carry gun you have choosen?
Will you practice enough with your carry gun to hit the target when you need to?
 
The 125 Grain .357 Magnum Speer Gold Dot is a great round! But there are several excellent choices.

Buffalo Bore has a short barrel low flash loading of Barnes 140 Grain XPB all copper hollowpoint. It is what I use for my 2.25" barrel Ruger SP101.

BBsp101boxplot_zpsef9edb70.jpg

This round penetrated completely through 4 one gallon water jugs in personal testing. It got stuck in the first layer of plastic of the 5th jug and caused some leaking, but did not go through. This was comparably good penetration compared to other rounds. Not that it means much, but it was fun to do. I tend to select rounds with good penetration characteristics. The Barnes bullets have a reputation for beautiful and consistent expansion as well. Icing on the cake, if the cake were bullets.

SP025_zpsa6763117.jpg

That said, when I want to impress upon people the capability of the .357, the 125 Grain Gold Dot at full speed makes a wonderful impression in gel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7w4M-LNXuQ

My advice would be to use what you can be most accurate with, with secondary criteria being penetration, then bullet weight, then velocity, with a good dose of personal preference mixed in.
 
That "Buffalo Barnes" load is PLENTY accurate. BuffaloBoretarget2_zpsae288c9b.jpg

The federal loading of the same 140 grain Barnes penetrated all 15" of ballistics gel, after blowing apart a 1 1/2" beef bone and blew bone fragments through the entire wound channel and into the water jug behind the gel. Great round.
 
Nice. Loaded that hot, I don't think the round would be suitable for a short barrel. I'd love to see the short barrel BB 140 XPB put through some gel for comparison.
 
Tony, I'm NOT a videographer, but here is a video I did for testing two 380 rounds. I knew I had enough gel to test the Federal Barnes 140 load (approx 1100fps out of a 2" scandium frame snub). The round did very well, both through bone and without hitting bone.

I'm not putting the BB load through my 340PD, though. That gun only weighs about 12 ounces and doesn't absorb recoil very well. I'm accurate out to 10-15 yards max with the snub, and it takes a lot of practice to stay proficient.

Sory in advance about the crappy sound and video quality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l6vrb4Z-Lk
 
Wow, never seen a bullet failure as extreme as that .380 hornady vs bone you put up.

The 140 out of your snub did great.

The XPB by federal you used is the same bullet that Buffalo Bore is using and also the same as represented in the Barnes Vor-Tx line. One of my favorites in this caliber and pretty new to the scene as far as I can tell.
 
I'm not sure I know what overpenetration really means. I'm aware of standards for minimal penetration as made by the FBI. I do hear or read that term "overpenetration" being used on the internet from time to time. I'm a fan of penetration. If I could properly carry and be defensive proficient with a 44 mag I would. However, the 45 automatic and 40 S&W are my preferred calibers to carry. Nothing wrong with the .357 mag.
Click to expand...

I'd say "over-penetration" is a legit worry due to laws like this in Texas' statue.....

§ 9.05. RECKLESS INJURY OF INNOCENT THIRD PERSON. Even
though an actor is justified under this chapter in threatening or
using force or deadly force against another, if in doing so he also
recklessly injures or kills an innocent third person, the
justification afforded by this chapter is unavailable in a
prosecution for the reckless injury or killing of the innocent
third person.
Click to expand...

One is responsible for the projectiles one launches in public.
 
So MC, As you stated it is a concern, how do you address your overpenetration worry? And, by chance do you know of any statistics whereby a person was struck by a bullet that passed through a bad guy in a self defensive shooting? I re-read the second quote and it seems to apply to more of a stray bullet scenario than a pass-through situation.
 
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I shoot a hot 140 JHP that's ACCURATE and I'll try to be sure what's behind my target when the time comes just as I do in the field. I'd been shooting the .357 for near 40 years and practice any time I feel like it by walking out my back door to my range. So, I hone my marksmanship skills much as I can, will have to do.

I mostly pocket carry a .38 special ultralite loaded with +P 158s around here, though. I mean, I work in a town of about 10K and live in the woods 20 miles from the nearest incorporated town. Heck, our county seat only has 2K people. Only carry the 3" medium frame .357 when I'm headed for the big city. My .38 becomes a BUG.
 
BTW, I think by carrying and relying upon a revolver, one improves his chances of not hitting a bystander. I remember a local police incident in the town I used to live where the hostage was hit by a shot. The hostage was 90 degrees from the perp in the room. The shooter was a reserve officer with an issue Glock .40, dumped the magazine at the perp and one shot got him. The rest went all over the room and one killed the "good guy", who wasn't that good being a pimp, but hey, he was the hostage.

I honestly don't know what happened to that reserve officer, never heard. Now, if that officer had been trained on and armed with a revolver, he might not have gone into machine pistol mode. It's sorta like learning to goose hunt with a single shot. You know your shots are limited and it makes you concentrate. :D
 
MC, nice carry guns. I wish I lived only a few miles from where I could shoot and practice.
 
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