.357 mag delivers a powerful demonstration

[Magic_Man]

Thanks, now I need a .357 revolver!

 

[Old School]

What kind of bullet? FMJ, LSWC, JHP?

Ken

It was a jhp of some kind. I don't remember if we even talked about the 357 ammo. I will tell you that the bullet was in a couple peices when we retrieved it. There was auto parts inside the 55 gallon drum and it bounce around in there. We were too busy being impressed.

 

[1911Tuner]

Thanks, now I need a .357 revolver!

Everybody does. I wouldn't be without a .357 or two.

 

[easyrider604]

Thanks, now I need a .357 revolver!

Are there any other kinds? .357s are all I got

 

[Confederate]

A few years ago, all the gun writers were moaning and groaning that you just didn't get magnum velocities if you used a barrel length less than 6-inches, and 3-inchers were just a waste of time and money, they said. Meanwhile, on the streets the bad guys were dropping no matter what the barrel length.

I've seen 4-inch guns get higher velocities than 6-inchers just because the tolerances on the 6-inch were a little different. And 3-inch magnums were doing an exemplary job putting down bad guys and, at closer ranges, deer. You'd never want to be on the inside of a car with any cartridge, especially not a .357, and the muzzle blast from the shorter tubes is nothing short of a flame thrower.

People talk about how much hotter the .357s were, but honestly, I think modern pressures are better. They're not only easier on the guns and the shooters, they retain more than enough power to cut through cars, vans and people. It's equally at home on the streets as in the field. Heavier bullets give greater penetration, while lighter bullets are devastating to man-sized targets.

It's not for pantywaists, but if you can get a shot to connect, you'll often not have to worry about getting off another. It's probably not the best thing to use in a home or condo, but for camping and hiking, it's hart to beat.

It's the one round that autoloader manufacturers try to duplicate, but so far they just haven't found the magic "bullet."



Even short barrels deliver devastating blows.

 

[La Pistoletta]

When you speak of good penetration against cars, vans and such, are you assuming JHP's? Would an FMJ in .357 simply overpenetrate against BG's?

 

[1911Tuner]

Would an FMJ in .357 simply overpenetrate against BG's?

Yessir. So would a 158-grain JHP. Hollowpoints tend to collapse inward on the hard stuff instead of expanding. What expansion is noted is usually just the soft lead mashing out, much the same as with a jacketed soft point...and the heavy JHPs don't normally expand violently even in flesh. 125s at about 1300-1400 fps impact velocity...yes. 158s at 1100-1200 fps...no.

 

[Noxx]

Thanks, now I need a .357 revolver!

You don't already have one?! Get thee to the gun store!

 

[La Pistoletta]

Good to know, 1911Tuner. Just how much of the .357's effectiveness against human targets relies on bullet expansion? Or is it basically a 9mm that travels a good deal faster? Are JSP's used more in that role, as opposed to the JHP's for 9mm, .45ACP etc?

 

[1911Tuner]

Just how much of the .357's effectiveness against human targets relies on bullet expansion?

Good question. Wish there was a simple answer. Regardless of expansion, the key to effectiveness seems to be more an issue of placement than anything else. Of course, everything means something...and expansion qualifies...but that alone isn't the answer. There's just no such thing as a magic bullet, and the notion of a one-shot stop is a nice ideal that happens sometimes...but it's best not to depend on it.

 

[La Pistoletta]

It's just, I've often seen it touted as one of the best "manstoppers". If the 9mm already overpenetrates in many instances, how does the extra velocity of the .357 enable it to surpass the other common pistol calibers (.40, .45 and roughly matching 10mm) in stopping power per round, given equally good shot placement?

I figured it had to lie in the .357 combining good penetration with reliable expansion due to its speed.

 

[OhioPaints]

Just how much of the .357's effectiveness against human targets relies on bullet expansion? Or is it basically a 9mm that travels a good deal faster? Are JSP's used more in that role, as opposed to the JHP's for 9mm, .45ACP etc?

The .357 has enough energy and speed for penetration AND expansion. That's always marginal (except to advertisers) in 9mm.

Yes, it's a 9mm that travels faster...fast enough to expand and penetrate.

I think JSPs are used more for game where deeper penetration or bone breaking is desired over a JHP where it expands faster but doesn't go as deep.

If the 9mm already overpenetrates in many instances

You need to differentiate between a 9mm overpenetrating when it's a marginal hit (arm, shoulder, etc.) vs. a good COM hit. I don't think you will find many (any?) 9mm "overpenetration" that goes through the center of the body, especially if the target is wearing heavy clothes. I'm more concerned about underpenetration.

I made a sad mistake this spring. I had to put a mare down. I thought I had my 45 (Sig 220). Unfortunately, I had picked up the 9mm Sig 228. It took four shots to put her down, two were in the ideal spot. I'm told that you can do it with a .22. In the past, I've used a .44 special LSWC and one shot dropped the horse instantly, it was dead before it hit the ground. I sure can't say the same for 9mm.

(If someone wants to question why I didn't have a vet do it "humanely", we've tried that in the past and the horse ran off and stood in pain before finally collapsing. Even some vets acknowledge that a gun shot is more humane than an injection.)


Ken

 

[Reddbecca]

If the 9mm already overpenetrates in many instances, how does the extra velocity of the .357 enable it to surpass the other common pistol calibers (.40, .45 and roughly matching 10mm) in stopping power per round, given equally good shot placement?

Different bullet shapes will affect performance, compare a round nose to a semi-wadcutter. Different speeds also play a part in it too. A bullet of a certain design, traveling at a certain speed, might not be able to expand but instead will continue to penetrate instead. A bullet of the same design but at a higher speed will be able to hit with more force and it might expand, or even fragment as it penetrates.

Bullet performance isn't an exact science.

 

[SDDL-UP]

THe 40 S&W was specifically designed as a defensive caliber against people, and overpenetration was and still is a concern.

A stout 357 Magnum load is going to penetrate a bunch, especially with non hollow point designs. Many 357 bullets can be had that are designed for hunting and they are going to penetrate much farther than any defensive type bullet.

Apples and oranges IMO, both are great performers but the 357 Magnum is more versatile in the hunting arena.

 

[La Pistoletta]

So basically it's what I thought: the .357 hits hard, deep and fast, and expands well to boot. And that's what makes it so effective against BG's.

I should've added "penetrate" in there somewhere as well and you'd think I was talking about something completely different...

 

[OhioPaints]

Another advantage of the .357 is that the bullet can be designed without regard for reliable loading unlike semi auto bullets where feed reliablity has to be the #1 design issue.

As such, the bullet can be designed for more reliable expansion than having to worry about reliable feeding, which may hurt expansion.

Ken

 

[wnycollector]

It's threads like this, that remind me why I have 3 .357 revolvers

 

[OhioPaints]

Only three? You need to go shopping! Did you get your gov't stimulus check yet?

 

[easyrider604]

It's threads like this, that remind me why I have 3 .357 revolvers

It reminds me why I only have .357 revolvers

and a .22 K-frame for cheap practice

 

[wnycollector]

the stimulus check went for a 1964 S&W model 36

 

[Mr. Magnum]

Got myself a treat last July '06 to a model 627 Smithie 8-shot .357 Magnum!

aside from having a .38spl snubbie and a .22 magnum (all smiths), the 357 is the one that gives me comfort esp at night, the confidence that gets the fear outta the way.

its now my only gun. The saying "Beware of the One Gun Man. He May Just Know How to Use It." got stuck in my mind and so i practice with mine every time. Having a dozen other guns may come in handy but id stick with my 357mag any day.

 

[DWFan]

One of the reasons Remington made a scalloped-jacket bullet was to improve the expansion instead of having the hollowpoint seal itself up. The modern "hi-perf" .357 loads are usually quoted as the 158gr @ 1400+ fps, but the original loads were a 158gr at 1550 fps and a 173gr at 1500 fps. These loads leaded a barrel up in short order. 46,000 cup is approx. 50,000 psi, btw; far above the present SAAMI specs of 35,000 psi for the neutered 1st Magnum.
I don't know about the GP100, but the Blackhawk can handle the original 158gr load, but not the 173gr load because the cylinder isn't long enough. The only difference between a std. Blackhawk .357 Magnum cylinder and the Maximum Super Blackhawk cylinder, besides the chambering, is in the length and the Maximum cylinder can handle 50,000 psi loads for the .357 Maximum.

 

[1911Tuner]

The modern "hi-perf" .357 loads are usually quoted as the 158gr @ 1400+ fps, but the original loads were a 158gr at 1550 fps and a 173gr at 1500 fps. These loads leaded a barrel up in short order.

Yep...and I always wondered why Remington and Winchester didn't gas check the bullets in the .357 like they did with the lead SWC in the .44 cartridge.

Note that the 1550 advertised velocity was taken in a 8.375 inch barrel. A 6-inch barrel would have brought that down to around 1450.
Still quite a wallop for a 158-grain bullet...

 

[Reddbecca]

Where can I get some of those 158 gr. 1450/1550 fps loads?

 

[wheelgunslinger]

read the whole thread, R.