.357 mag load using 20" carbine

[ASCTLC]

Am trying to determine a reasonable .357 mag loading for whitetail does. I tend to lean towards heavier bullets (180 gr) but see a reasonably priced 158 gr RNFPM by Missouri Bullets. The question I have is: at what speed can I push an 18 Brinnel bullet? To use for hunting little whitetails, I'd think the 158 gr would be sufficient for <100 yard shots but can I push the 18 brinnel fast enough to not just zip through shockless?

I was checking out the .357 Partition in 180 gr but dang almost a buck per bullet?! The 158 gr Partition is considerably less expensive but not sure I'm comfortable with a hollow point bullet that light at .357 mag speeds.

Thanks,
Andy

 

[MCgunner]

I killed a doe with mine once, 80 yards, she went about 15 yards and piled up. I was shooting a 158 gas check Lee SWC (weighs 165 grains as cast with the gas check installed) in front of 14.5 grains 2400, a standard load I load for revolvers. I love that bullet, accurate and effective. I get about 1800 fps out of it at the muzzle. I've switched to Lil' Gun for that gun, now. I load it a little below max at 16.8 grains and still get 1900 fps out of it. A max charge is around 17.5 grains with that bullet and that one screams past 1900 fps. I'm sure with 17.5-18 grains of Lil' Gun it'd push a 158 JSP to over 2000 fps, have been told so. Lil' Gun loads are pushing .30-30 factory ballistics, best powder I've found yet for the caliber in a carbine. I thank our poster, Goosegestapo, for the tip. I can handload a 150 from a .30-30 to 2400 fps with IMR 3031, but factory loads I've tested were in the 2200 fps range.

So, basically, anything I can kill with a .30-30 flat nose to 100 yards, I can down with my little 92 Rossi to that range, no problem. If you want to cut costs, handloading is THE way to do it. And, don't worry about expansion, don't need it with that large Keith style flat nosed SWC.

BTW, the bullet has a gas check and I tumble lube and size to .357. It does NOT lead the bore even at 1900 fps.

 

[fourdollarbill]

Ditto on the Lil'Gun and Lee 165gr LSWCGC. I find the Lil'Gun to be the perfect powder for pushing a gas checked bullet that fast. I just shot 50 of them loaded today trying to find the most accurate charge. 17 grs grouped @ 3.5" at 75 yds and they were hitting hard. I tried the H110 with that bullet and they are all over the place. I tried the 2400 and it was better than the H110.

Suprise to me today but not good for hunting the white tail. I loaded that bullet over some unique (for a gp100) and 2 times in a row I got a 2.5" group of 3 @ 75yds in my 1894C lever...

I just started loading gas checked bullets and IMO they are the answer for the high priced hunting bullet.

 

[MCgunner]

What I REALLY like about that little rifle is that, with the heavy .357s, I can kill deer and hogs; yet, I load a 105 grain Lee cast SWC in front of 2.3 grains bullseye in .38 special brass and turns the gun into a 50 yard squirrel rifle. Velocity is 900 fps and recoil and report are .22LRish. So, in the same gun, I have a .30-30 and a .22! All it takes is an elevation adjustment on the rear sight to switch.

That 105 SWC is a neat bullet. Out of the rifle, it shoots about 1.5" at 50 yards, about the same as my 10/22. I have more accurate .22s, but it'd get the job done on small game. I size that bullet and load in .38, 9x19, and .380 and it's very accurate and reliable in the autos as well as in .38. It's the most accurate bullet I've found for shooting in 9mm bores, in fact. It has a long, pointed snout that helps in feed reliability in the autos. I shoot a lot of those bullets. I'm wanting a 6 cavity mold for it.

Handloading really makes these little rifles very versatile.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Thanks for the kind coments McGunner!
I've not done much work with the Lee C158-SWC and Lil'Gun. Mine too (both 2&6 cav.) cast to 165gr w/gc.

However, I do really like the 14.5gr of #2400. I took a 200# pig with it in '04 from my Ruger Sec.6 4".

For any .357mag carbine use, my choice is the Remington 158gr JSP bullet over 17.8gr of LilGun. It gives 2,100+fps from my Win M94 and excellent accuracy. If not using the Rem bullet, I'd use the Hornady 158gr JSP.

I too get 2,400+fps from the .30/30 and 150's, but I prefer RL-15.
But then again I've discovered the Rem 170gr CorLokts and Rl15 @ 34.0gr for 2,300+fps. I take the .357 when scouting or just "knocking about", as it wears a Williams reciever site in case I jump something.

Of late though, I enamoured again with the .257Roberts. I got a brainstorm to try some WC-860 (about like the discontinued H870). I'm shooting it under a Sierra 120 or Nosler 115gr BalTip over a mag primer and seated out to touch the lands to get the pressure up and perhaps velocity. Hoping for decent velocity. Maybe 2,600 fps. Too bad we can't get 120gr Rem Ptd CorLokts any more! It'd make a great budget buck-buster for the "Bob".

 

[ASCTLC]

Hmmm... will need to consider the Rem JSP. I've got W296 but may need to run out and grab the container of LilGun I saw in a store. Am a little leary of pushing my chambers too much with the LilGun, but I guess if I only shoot enough of it for whitetail and not a lot of practice shooting...

Sorry I may not have been clear. I'll be handloading the rounds. The Nosler 180 gr Partition is about $1 just for the bullet. Then I have to use my brass, my powder, my primer... That's why my preferred bullet becomes less than desireable.

The JSP may be more in line with my thoughts of sturdy but will expand at least a little for proper performance in the just shy of 2000 fps range. But must admit, I'm not sure if I'm thinking right with that or focusing on something that really doesn't matter.

 

[MCgunner]

Yeah, my little Rossi is more of a bum around gun than a hunting gun. I also have an SKS I kinda like for a truck gun. The little Rossi has a ghost ring aperture on it and is so light and handy, but it's a PITA to unload compared to the SKS when I get back to the truck, LOL.

In .257 Roberts, I'm pretty satisfied with my H4831 load. It's rather compressed, but it gives 3050 fps with a 117 grain Interlock and, more important, is sub MOA in the gun. I ran into 50 rounds of brass at a local gun shop last fall, bought it, whipped out some 100 grain Game King loads, and took it to the range for the first time in probably 15 years. I've been enamored with this .308 since I got it. I may break out the ol' Bob, too, this season if I decided to take a rifle. I have been hunting mostly with handguns in the last several years.

Regards to Lil' Gun, I don't believe I'm pushing the pressure with it to get better results in the long gun than 2400, frankly. I don't worry about pressure using it. I'm not loaded to absolute max with it and I'm STILL getting 75 or so fps more out of it than with the 2400 which is just below max, too. I could push it harder, but don't see the need. I'm quite happy with it as is and it's shooting around 4MOA at 100 yards which is decent from a lever gun with a ghost ring.

 

[ASCTLC]

Well, I went out and grabbed the 1lb bottle of LilGun while I could still find it locally. Now to figure out the best bullet for small whitetail application. It's either the 30-06 or the .357 and the 30-06 is just waaay too much gun for a small whitetail (in my humble opinion, of course).

Andy

 

[fourdollarbill]

Remember, if you use LilGun in the 357mag make sure the bullet is 158 or heavier and don't load minimum or lower. Lil'Gun really should be at max charge with a mag primer to burn properly. A 180 gr bullet needs all of the 15grs of LG to make it happen. If you need Lil'Gun recipes go to the Hodgdon web site and it will give them. I load a 165 gr with 17gr of LG and it is a thumper that will drop a deer with no problem.

I know nothing of rifles but I don't think LG is a 30-06 powder.

NOTE: the loads mentioned are for my 1894C and obviously you need to work your own loads for your gun.

 

[ASCTLC]

Thanks $4. Hope I didn't confuse, no 30-06 load expected with the LilGun, just pointing out that any 30-06 load I'll work up with proper LR powders just seems too much for the tiny lowely whitetail so I want to focus on a .357 loading for my Puma 92 lever action.

I'm not into casting my own bullets (yet?) so finding a suitable heavy bullet is what I need to find. I prefer heavier than the 158 gr and why I bought the LilGun. I believe I've got everything but the actual bullet picked out.

 

[fourdollarbill]

http://www.missouribullet.com/results.php?category=5&secondary=10

This 158gr hard bullet is a true 357mag velocity lead bullet. You can't go wrong with Missouri Bullets made specifically for 357 mag. Don't bother shopping it because they are by far the lowest price period.

 

[ASCTLC]

Thanks again $4. I was looking at these RNFP under the "rifle" listings http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=110&category=6&secondary=&keywords= but not sure if the 18 brinnel would deform enough on impact at nearly 2000 fps muzzel velocity out to 100 yards. Not sure I know enough to be comfortable with a fast non-deforming bullet for deer application. It's either a non-deformng light bullet (158gr) or an expanding heavy bullet (180gr), but not an expanding light (158 gr) bullet.

Let me ask this: Is 18 brinnel considered hardcast or is it still soft enough to expand/deform on a whitetail lung shot?

 

[rcmodel]

18 BNH is hard cast, and will not deform on a whitetail.
But neither will a softer SWC at .357 carbine velocity.

They kill by making a full caliber hole in one side and out the other.
Two blood trails with massive & fast blood loss and broken shoulder bones if thats where you hit them..

A 158 JHP like an XTP or Gold Dot will probably expand some with a lung shot, and may still penetrate both sides of a deer. But in no case are you going to have them blowing up like a varmint bullet.

rc

 

[ASCTLC]

Thanks RC.