First time reloading 357 mag...need advice

[Juiceking]

Hello,
So i have reloaded 9mm 40sw and 5.56. Ive got about 25 357 mag factory ammo left and my inherited reload kit has enough options that im not sure im approaching this new round, for me, logically.

My goal is to have a 357mag load for shooting paper and 1 for camping/self defense. I want to try to just use 2400 because i have the most of that for .357. I will be using a ruger security six and a S&W Highway Patrolman.

I actually had a Thr member give me the black container and at the time i didn't even realize what i had in that white carboard tube. So i have a decent amount of 2400 and i want to use it.

For projectiles i have available:
200-140gr Hornady xtp/fp
100-140gr Speer jhp
500-158gr berrys fp (no cannelure)
200-158gr Hornady xtp/fp
200-158gr Speer JSP
700-160gr SWC
200-180gr Hornady XTP

So I assume the xtp stuff i should save for full power loads and the lead and berrys bullets for milder paper punching. Of course the berrys with no cannelure is problematic but i loaded 20 @ 12gr 2400 with oal of 1.590/per lyman 49th edition and crimped. Hopefully just short of cutting into plating. Ill load full cylinder and keep checking for setback after each shot.

The 160gr SWC has me excited because i have a good number of them but ive never loaded cast bullets so im anxious about leading barrel. I only loaded 5 so far because i don't feel to confident in my knowledge. 13gr of 2400 with 1.590 oal per lyman.

So if your in my shoes do you just pick a projectile and start loading from midway point and start working up ladders? What projectiles would you start with first and why? Any help with thought process of how to approach mulitiple profiles and weights within same caliber. Eventually ill be reloading 38spc but still have factory ammo im working thru.
So far ive reloaded 20 rnds each; berrys 158gr fp 12gr 2400 col 1.590, speer 158gr JSP 12.4gr col 1.570 (speer website), Hornady 158gr xtp 13gr 2400 col 1.590 and 5 160gr SWC 13gr 2400 oal 1.590 (seemed to deep based on where crimp was landing on cannelure. Any help or thoughts appreciated.

 

[George P]

IIRC, Berry's says to keep velocities below 1200fps, so if you're doing that, it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Juiceking]

From what I understand biggest issue with berrys is no cannelure so possible setback issues. Any experience with that? Lyman 49 says start load is 11.3 @938 fps oal 1.590 so i think 12gr should be well below 1200 fps

 

[George P]

I haven't loaded Berrys for 357. just 38s and have had no issues

 

[geo57]

If you want to stay strictly with 2400 this has been my experience with it under a bulk 158 gr. JHP in .357 mag cases with a firm roll crimp applied. At 12.8 grs I still got more than I cared for unburnt / partially burned granules left in the case & in the bore. Not a gross amount but definitely enough to notice. Many shooters do not mind this but I prefer a recipe where I get a cleaner burn. Bumping that up to 13.5 grains I get an almost 100% burn. It is about a 90 % to full power load. I use standard small pistol primers only, not mag primers. It is accurate, still very controllable in double action mode with the ability for pretty fast follow up shots from a Ruger GP100. In my 4" barrels it averages about 1150 FPS. I've settled on this one as my heavier mag load and it's as heavy as I go. I have tested it in wet pack and would feel confident using it for defense.

If you ever get some Unique & want a softer load just to punch paper with I also load 7.0 grs of it under that same projectile in mag cases for my wife's use. Think of it as a .38 SPL +P+ . They average about 950 FPS from our 4 " barrels.

Best of luck to you in this pursuit.

 

[George P]

If Unique is on the table then cleaner-buring Universal would be as well.

 

[Juiceking]

So when it comes to powders, i have other powders including 3lbs of unique and 1lb of universal but I have 5lbs of 2400 so i want to try to put a dent in it.
The THR member that gave me the black container also sold me some shooters world powder (SWS) that im excited to try in 38spc.

 

[AJC1]

2400 with the heavier bullets and a good crimp will be the best. Those 180 xtps would be my first options for heavy hitters.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

First, check the lead bullet for proper fit in your gun. This starts at the cylinder throat. The bullet should push through with mild to moderate pressure. If the bullet drops through, it is too small and will lead the barrel. For more, read Fryxell's chapter on leading. http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm

 

[kcofohio]

Hello,
So i have reloaded 9mm 40sw and 5.56. Ive got about 25 357 mag factory ammo left and my inherited reload kit has enough options that im not sure im approaching this new round, for me, logically.

My goal is to have a 357mag load for shooting paper and 1 for camping/self defense. I want to try to just use 2400 because i have the most of that for .357. I will be using a ruger security six and a S&W Highway Patrolman.

I actually had a Thr member give me the black container and at the time i didn't even realize what i had in that white carboard tube. So i have a decent amount of 2400 and i want to use it.

For projectiles i have available:
200-140gr Hornady xtp/fp
100-140gr Speer jhp
500-158gr berrys fp (no cannelure)
200-158gr Hornady xtp/fp
200-158gr Speer JSP
700-160gr SWC
200-180gr Hornady XTP

So I assume the xtp stuff i should save for full power loads and the lead and berrys bullets for milder paper punching. Of course the berrys with no cannelure is problematic but i loaded 20 @ 12gr 2400 with oal of 1.590/per lyman 49th edition and crimped. Hopefully just short of cutting into plating. Ill load full cylinder and keep checking for setback after each shot.

The 160gr SWC has me excited because i have a good number of them but ive never loaded cast bullets so im anxious about leading barrel. I only loaded 5 so far because i don't feel to confident in my knowledge. 13gr of 2400 with 1.590 oal per lyman.

So if your in my shoes do you just pick a projectile and start loading from midway point and start working up ladders? What projectiles would you start with first and why? Any help with thought process of how to approach mulitiple profiles and weights within same caliber. Eventually ill be reloading 38spc but still have factory ammo im working thru.
So far ive reloaded 20 rnds each; berrys 158gr fp 12gr 2400 col 1.590, speer 158gr JSP 12.4gr col 1.570 (speer website), Hornady 158gr xtp 13gr 2400 col 1.590 and 5 160gr SWC 13gr 2400 oal 1.590 (seemed to deep based on where crimp was landing on cannelure. Any help or thoughts appreciated. View attachment 1001231View attachment 1001231 View attachment 1001232View attachment 1001233View attachment 1001234

The Berry's 158 gr. with 12 gr. of 2400 should stay below the 1250 fps max that Berry's recommends. But I'd shoot 3, then check the fourth one to see how far out the bullets are being pulled. Or you could do them one shot at a time with full cylinder. The main concern is that the bullet could pull out enough to lock up the cylinder. Then it's a bear to get it to swing out.

 

[ballman6711]

My goal is to have a 357mag load for shooting paper and 1 for camping/self defense.

Any of your bullets will do for shooting paper. Find a load you like, that you feel is safe in your gun, and that's accurate by your standards in your gun, and you're there. Maybe something soft shooting for new shooters, or maybe something full power for you to practice with to become accustomed to the recoil. Maybe a few of both.

For "camping/self defense" it gets a bit more involved. A question to ask is what might you be defending against, which also means where might you be camping?

For projectiles i have available:
200-140gr Hornady xtp/fp
100-140gr Speer jhp
500-158gr berrys fp (no cannelure)
200-158gr Hornady xtp/fp
200-158gr Speer JSP
700-160gr SWC
200-180gr Hornady XTP

For two legged defense, any of the hollow points will work well, assuming you've worked up a load that allows the bullet to expand as intended.

For four legged defense such as a bear, I would choose the 158gr JSP with my second choice being the 160gr SWC. Either of these bullets will penetrate deep enough to hit vitals, again assuming you've done your job and worked up the load.

chris

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Check the product # on the XTP's as some are made to expand at various velocities. For paper it won't matter but you'll get bad performance for one made to expand at 38 speeds pushed hard in a .357 if you use it on game.

 

[Bazoo]

I second Fryxell's work.

Don't be afraid of leading. It is easy to remove once you learn how. Read Fryxell's chapter on it.

In that regard, I've found, a good load, will remove leading. I have a GP100 that leads with some loads I try. If I shoot a cylinder or two full of a particular load it likes using the RCBS 38-150-SWC over a full charge of 296, leading is gone.

Using lead bullets is an art all to itself. If you get lucky, everything will work in unison. The gun has to be dimensionally correct, the pressure correct for the bullet hardness, and the lube correct for the application. If one or more of things is off, leading will be fierce. No big deal, figure out what the issue is and fix it instead of giving up on lead.

I've been on the brink of giving up many times, but thank God I stuck it out. It's so rewarding to get lead to shoot well.

 

[Herman B]

the berrys with no cannelure is problematic but i loaded 20 @ 12gr 2400 with oal of 1.590/per lyman 49th edition and crimped. Hopefully just short of cutting into plating.

From what I understand biggest issue with berrys is no cannelure so possible setback issues.

No cannelure = taper crimp. A taper crimp does not increase neck tension one iota. There's no crimping, more straightening. Overdone, it will reduce tension. Really overdone, expect accuracy woes, perhaps pressure, too.

Revolver bullets don't set back when firing a round. You're thinking semi auto. In a revolver cylinder the unfired bullets jump forward if not held fast by neck tension alone (taper) or neck tension and roll crimp, potentially locking-up the cyl, requiring a gunsmith.

Roll crimp serves two purposes; helps prevent jump and ensures ample pressure before the bullet is released.

So if your in my shoes do you just pick a projectile and start loading from midway point and start working up ladders? What projectiles would you start with first and why?

For the camping/SD, either 158 or 180 XTP. Start low/mid and go from there. It's not necessary to reach the bleeding edge. Observe primers, extraction.

At some point, slugging your barrels may prove helpful for various reasons.

 

[Juiceking]

The Fryxell article is definitely informative and sounds like as long as i have a good handle on "bullet diameter, bullet hardness, throat diameter, groove diameter, lube quantity and quality, possible barrel constrictions, bore roughness, cylinder gap, etc. Gentle fire-lapping can cure several, but not all, of the causes of leading."

Man not going to lie after reading all that it makes me wish i could trade them all for jacketed bullets. Oh well one step at a time and I didn't pay for any of them so i guess there's that.

 

[lordpaxman]

My goal is to have a 357mag load for shooting paper and 1 for camping/self defense. I want to try to just use 2400 because i have the most of that for .357.

Lots of good advice above, I would use the 2400 and the 158 XTPs for the SD load. Personally I start more towards the “start” position and not midway if I’ve never loaded the projectile or powder before. Once I have some empirical data and real world experience, I may alter that. May.
Even the lead projectiles can be very effective SD loads, but if you’re looking for a lighter load I’d suggest a faster powder. You can still roll crimp the Berrys, just don’t cut the plating. And with a lighter load of faster powder you’ll be at less velocity and less recoil so bullet jump won’t be an issue. The 160 SWC will do nicely for a paper puncher. What fast powders might you have? Good luck.

 

[FROGO207]

Take it slow and have fun. 38SPL/357 is one of the easiest calibers to reload for. These days primers or rather lack of, would be a concern. Do not be afraid of lead. It is not that much of a problem when you understand what to look for. Most of my issues were with cylinder throats being too small. Getting them reamed solved most everything relating to shooting lead.

 

[forrest r]

No big deal burn the bullets up and move on.

The biggest issue with commercial cast bullets is they are cast out of too hard of an alloy and have too hard of a lube. Those jugs of 2400 are the perfect answer for them. Load the hot & burn them up. Any leading get or make some tumble lube and give them a good coat and then go blasting.

You have unique & universal laying around for the plated bullets.

 

[Herman B]

You can still roll crimp the Berrys, just don’t cut the plating.

To what depth is the bullet being swaged? Shot at what muzzle velocity? I believe Berry suggests < 1,250 fps for standard plated. At some point I'd expect separation if the plating were compromised. If any doubt, shoot paper and check for multiple holes from one bullet.

 

[Rule3]

Information overload! Too many options, but 2400 will work for all of them.

Why not just pick one of projectiles and develop a load for that?

2400 and 158(160) gr lswc are made for each other.

 

[Catpop]

2400 is your upper end powder
Will work for target, but a powder like Unique would better serve you better
Just my experience.

 

[Juiceking]

Woohoo got to use caldwell chrono for the first time and i got to use it on my first .357mag loads. Chrono worked great even though it was a super bright 90deg day.

The first set was the berrys and the 3rd to 4th shots i was seeing it going from 1.590 oal to 1.596. So like everyone is saying 2400 probably isn't right powder for those but i have a lot so i don't want it to just sit and go bad... the card board tube of 2400 has a 81 stamped on side. Also a lot of unburnt powder

The speer jsp felt really good. I also was more accurate with those.

The xtp/fp seemed disappointing power wise. Not sure if it was my reloading or what. They just seemed not to have alot of umph. Definitely going to work on those.

I was to much of baby to shoot the lead. Someone ssked what fast powdersi have and i dont know my powders that well...i have older standard stuff unique bullseye universal green dot lil gun h110 sr579 and several imr and H types h110 h4985 h335 titegroup.

Thank you for all the good comments. I had a fun day.


description: 158gr berrys FP
Notes 1: 12gr 2400 slight bullet jump
Notes 2: 1.590 oal
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 158.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
7 879 271.11 138.88
6 962 324.73 152.00
5 921 297.64 145.52
4 802 225.69 126.72
3 900 284.22 142.20
2 976 334.25 154.21
1 ERROR 3
Average: 906.67
StdDev: 62.99
Min: 802
Max: 976
Spread: 174
True MV: 907.70

Description: 158gr speer JSP
Notes 1: 12.4gr 2400
Notes 2: 1.570 oal
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 158.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
6 1126 444.89 177.91
5 1093 419.19 172.69
4 1079 408.52 170.48
3 1100 424.58 173.80
2 1052 388.33 166.22
1 1093 419.19 172.69
Average: 1090.50
StdDev: 24.40
Min: 1052
Max: 1126
Spread: 74
True MV: 1091.74
Shots/sec: 0.03

Created: 05-29-2021 11:13:33 AM
Description: 158gr hor xtp/fp
Notes 1: 13.0gr 2400
Notes 2: 1.590
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 158.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
7 1004 353.70 158.63
6 942 311.37 148.84
5 1006 355.11 158.95
4 966 327.44 152.63
3 1032 373.71 163.06
2 ERROR 2
1 980 337.00 154.84
Average: 988.33
StdDev: 32.18
Min: 942
Max: 1032
Spread: 90
True MV: 989.46

 

[Alaskamike]

If it were me I'd use the Berrys with your Unique and Universal, and use 2400 for about everything else.

As has already been mentioned, as long as the 160 grain cast bullets are sized right for your revolver, you can push them as fast as jacketed bullets without worry. My standard .357 mag load is my own cast RCBS 38-150-K 150 grain SWCs over 14.5 grains of 2400.

Glad you're using the chronograph. That's one of the best assets to load development you can have, after a good set of manuals.

 

[forrest r]

Great range report & 1st outing with your reloads!!!

Glad to see you had a good day at the range with a chronograph.

You really have a perfect situation with the berry's & cast bullets to be used as a learning tool. Take your time and give it some thought & come up with a game plan. This is an excellent reloading manual from alliant, the last year of what I consider their best data. Print pages 42, 43, 44 & 45. I still use these to this day. The bbl lengths and velocities are actual real world lengths/results.
http://castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant/Alliant_2005.pdf

While the reloading manuals give oal's for loads, the oal's are not written in stone. What that is telling you is the expected pressure of a load with a bullet seated at XXX oal. Seat deeper and the oal goes up (less case capacity), longer the pressure goes down. I do not have any charts for 357's but here's an example of the changes in seating depths vs pressure for a 9mm load.


Keep in mind that the 357 mag has 50%+ more case capacity so the shorter oal's will not rise as quickly on the chart above.

Revolver cylinders have leade's in them. A picture of a bullet loaded to the "book oal" (top) and a lingthened oal (bottom) so that the bullet is out into the leade of the cylinder.


Putting the bullet into the leade aids in the bullets alignment leading to better accuracy. It also aids in the short start pressure of the load, better/more consistent burn.

If it was me, Id start with 1 bullet like those plated bullets and grab the greendot & bullseye and start working on moving the oal's around. I'd also test different crimps while repeating the same ladder tests looking what what improves accuracy and consistent es's and sd's.

After burning the plated bullets up I'd move on to the cast bullets with unique and 2400 doing ladder tests and working on crimps doing the same ladder tests looking for what has the lowest es's & sd's.

By the time your done with those bullets/tests you will be able to identify when you have too little/too much crimp along with the pressure ranges the powders you used run best at.

You would be able to know why your xtp load didn't do very well along with having the knowledge to not of even tried that load to begin with.

 

[greyling22]

For my lead plinking 357 loads, I use basically use a warm 38 load in a 357 case. Right now I'm using true blue, but almost any pistol powder except the really fast and really slow can be made to work. Probably whatever powder you are using in the 40 will work great.

The 2400 is great for hot 357 loads. If you don't need it, trade it away. I've got an unopened 8lb jig of clays I'd trade you for it of you were local. I never seem to have enough 2400 or h110.