357 Magnum advice needed!

[LeadFlyFly]

Any comments on my crimp? With 9mm, I just use the seat/crimp die and that works extremely well. I've never done separate steps. The Lee die instructions said to adjust until the die touches the bullet, then go in (down) 1/2 turn for light crimp or 1 full turn for heavy. This is maybe a touch over 3/4 turn.

2400 powder- 13.0 grains. 158 grain lead with HiTek coating. COL is 1.590- but reality is 1.592 or 1.593. I sorted the brass and these are all Winchester cases and length is the same within 3-4 thousandths.



To be sure of the powder charge I actually tared the scale with each case on it, then weighed them after and they are all extremely close to 13 grains of 2400. I just got the Lyman pistol smith powder measure and I don't fully trust it yet- first time using it. It was good on 25 consecutive throws though.

 

[LeadFlyFly]

All good with those. I marked one case with a sharpie, fired five and measured the one that I had marked. No change in OAL- still 1.592. I guess the crimp is doing the job at this setting. These didn't feel particularly heavy- probably because the GP100 with a 5" barrel weighs a ton!!! Primers were fine and cases were not tight- they all came out easily.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

All good with those. I marked one case with a sharpie, fired five and measured the one that I had marked. No change in OAL- still 1.592. I guess the crimp is doing the job at this setting. These didn't feel particularly heavy- probably because the GP100 with a 5" barrel weighs a ton!!! Primers were fine and cases were not tight- they all came out easily.

Excelsior!

 

[lordpaxman]

Those are real pretty! So they fired well, how’d they hit?

 

[RealGun]

Loading to COL is very overrated for revolvers. The crimp groove determines where you crimp. Looking at bullet dimensions, the part that takes up case volume, the part under the crimp groove, will effect the load performance. Plated bullets or any without crimp groove are not really meant for or suitable for revolvers. COL can matter if the cylinder won't accept or turn with the rounds. Going by what a book says for COL is not important except to state the specs for what was tested. In 357 for my guns, COL mattered for my S&W model 19-4. I had to trim my brass by .010 (to 1.265) in order to retain the crimp I wanted on SWC and get the rounds to chamber. I keep that batch of brass separate.

 

[LeadFlyFly]

Those are real pretty! So they fired well, how’d they hit?

I'm working on that part!!! I've been away from handgun shooting for so long that I have to start over. Had a buddy over and we videoed each other shooting- and the other guy always loaded either one round or no rounds in the gun. It's a harsh lesson in flinching but it's good for us!! I have snap caps coming for the 357 and will work hard on that. I'm not printing any groups on paper yet- just hitting steel. I have managed to hit 6 of 6 on a 12" gong at 50 feet, so at least I know we are in the ballpark.

I'm getting ready to shoot 13.5 grains. Once I have my fun and powerful round figured out, I will start printing groups with the 13 grain minimum load, and my top load to see where the accuracy falls. I might not get all the way to 14 grains- the 13.4 grain load was feeling more snappy.

Lots of distractions these days- work for one, plus I just picked up another 9mm- a SAR 9. Haven't even test-fired that yet. I'm really a Glock guy, but the high capacity guns don't fit me at all. The interchangeable side panels and back strap on the SAR 9 is a real game-changer for a guy with big palms and short fingers. With the grip wrapped in the small parts, I can very easily get a great grip on a handgun with 17+1 capacity- for the first time. At $400 brand new from my LGS, I couldn't say no.

Further distraction- yesterday the Johnny Glocks combat trigger arrived for my model 48, and I installed that this morning. I can't say enough for it- WOW. The manager of my LGS shoots IDPA and apparently his friends who shoot Glocks swear by this drop-in kit. He was right on the money with that recommendation.

 

[Palladan44]

Over the years, Ive found the 38/ 357 the most fun to handload due to the wide range of capabilities they have to offer. From .22LR like recoil of "mouse fart" .38 loads, to the eyebrow-cinching boomers of the true 357 magnum spec loads. You will no doubt have fun with it, so do enjoy.
Countless data out there, and one could spend a lifetime and then some working through them.

My only experience with heavy for caliber revolvers, like the GP100 and very light loads is, a squib and a shot fired can feel and sound similar!

 

[LeadFlyFly]

Over the years, Ive found the 38/ 357 the most fun to handload due to the wide range of capabilities they have to offer. From .22LR like recoil of "mouse fart" .38 loads, to the eyebrow-cinching boomers of the true 357 magnum spec loads. You will no doubt have fun with it, so do enjoy.
Countless data out there, and one could spend a lifetime and then some working through them.

My only experience with heavy for caliber revolvers, like the GP100 and very light loads is, a squib and a shot fired can feel and sound similar!

Squib loads are scary.

This is my first time on paper with the GP100. This was 13.8 grains of 2400 and that will be my maximum. 25 feet, rested. Very sure this could be one jagged hole if I worked at it, but I will work at it with light loads first!! The very first shot was in the lower group, and the 5th or 6th was there- can't remember.

 

[LeadFlyFly]

Corrected the powder charge- just looked at the sheet and this was 13.8 grains of 2400 and coated 158gr SWCBB. And THAT will be the max for me!! This has me wondering about the manuals that are going up to what- 15.5 grains??? That seems ridiculous. But maybe in a lever-action rifle? Still, if I shoot something with this load and it doesn't die, I will seek other options. . It's a lot of recoil and blast for a handgun.

 

[LeadFlyFly]

This is my baby:



Clearly I'm not a videographer, but near the end I adjusted the position of my phone!! I'm really starting to like this gun a lot. I was flipping through the Lee reloading manual that came today and noticed there is a powder-puff load for 38 special with Ramshot Silhouette. I'll double-check the data with Western Powder's manual before I start, but one of my powder measures has some in it for the 9mm that I load so tempted to try that.

My LGS had a bag of 250 38 special cases so I scooped that up and they are in the tumbler now!!

 

[AJC1]

This is my baby:



Clearly I'm not a videographer, but near the end I adjusted the position of my phone!! I'm really starting to like this gun a lot. I was flipping through the Lee reloading manual that came today and noticed there is a powder-puff load for 38 special with Ramshot Silhouette. I'll double-check the data with Western Powder's manual before I start, but one of my powder measures has some in it for the 9mm that I load so tempted to try that.

My LGS had a bag of 250 38 special cases so I scooped that up and they are in the tumbler now!!

I would be interested in that load if you get it. I got a 357 load by phone from them and forgot to ask for 38.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Squib loads are scary.

This is my first time on paper with the GP100. This was 13.8 grains of 2400 and that will be my maximum. 25 feet, rested. Very sure this could be one jagged hole if I worked at it, but I will work at it with light loads first!! The very first shot was in the lower group, and the 5th or 6th was there- can't remember.

View attachment 1016787


View attachment 1016788

Looks pretty darned good to me! Well done, sir.

 

[LeadFlyFly]

This is the Western Powders PDF that I printed- downloaded it from their site very recently.

 

[Palladan44]

Ive always liked me a good balance between power and accuracy in my 357 magnums. Ill explain...

At first I dabbled with very light loads (Light WIN 231 data) and very accurate they were indeed.
I then realized they provided no "wow" factor, and were far too weak to hunt and deer with.....but i still keep a stockpile of these rounds for light duty and target purposes, in .38 special or .357 cases using lead bullets of basically whatevers available...these are specialists- target, plinking, and introducing new shooters to the sport loads. Using these quick powders, pressure builds up very quickly before any type of velocity (when compared to others) is achieved beyond target loads, so i keep them light and thats it. Period. No reason for me to ever work beyond middle range of published data on these, if that.

I also dabbled with, and still do, the maximum end high-powered 357 Magnum loads. These would be worked up to max or near maximum loads using WIN296/H-110 and 158gr. Jacketed bullets. (Never plated, never soft lead) These loads can be very accurate, but have a stout recoil, loud muzzle blast, usually a big fireball flash. They rattle my skull at any indoor range, and rarely do I desire to fire many of these, especially indoors. They are great at killing deer, and they provide the maximum Wow factor. But these are also a specialist in that, they are for maximum power, and they do that very well....but they are not able to be reduced safely, nor is it effective to do so....

Lastly, my honey loads..... using 2400 and somewhere in the medium/heavy range, using 158gr Hard cast semi wadcutters. I believe 2400 was one of (if not the original) 357 magnum powder (yes, original Hercules 2400 was a tad slower burning than todays Alliant) I can achieve almost the accuracy (call it 95% or better)of the best mouse fart loads ive ever made, with almost the power factor (call it 92%) of the hottest W-296/H-110 loads ive made. It has an excellent boom, so you know youre definitely shooting a magnum. This load can also drop any deer on the planet with correct shot placement. The deer Ive taken with these sometimes get a pass-through, and always damage vitals very critically. The chamber pressures are moderate, so theres a good deal of comfort and safety in these. Using hard cast bullets of the proper fit for chambers, I get very little if any leading. The recoil is medium heavy, and shooting double action, I can still get quick follow up shots...A couple hog walks Ive been on, Ive taken these loads in my 8-3/8" M27, they did the job.
If I had to pick one 357 Magnum load to have only one of, it would be this one, using 2400.

Thanks for reading my ramble! Have fun.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I didn't read all the posts in 3 pages so sorry if I repeat anything already said.

Since you're not sure of the primer I'm sure using 2400 is better than using HS-6 because 2400 doesn't require a magnum primer whereas HS-6 does.

A charge of 14.0gr 2400 under that 158gr bullet will produce a "real" .357 Magnum load. As for the ammo for your wife, why not just load up some .38 Special ammo in .38 Special cases? No reason to use all Magnum brass. Just be sure to clean the charge holes well because you can build up a carbon ring in the cylinder if not cleaned after each range trip. I suggest a charge of between 4.0gr and 4.5gr W231 under those 158gr bullets for your wife. She will be very happy with those loads.
If you want to use HS-6 for your wife's ammo use a magnum primer and a charge of 7.0gr HS-6 under those 158gr bullets in either case. In the .38 Special case that is a full power .38 Special +P load. I usually use a CCI-550 primer.

The Missouri Bullet Company sells that same bullet but without grease grooves for the same $45/500. I like the Hi-Tek 2 coated bullets for high pressure loads like the .357 Magnum but IMO its not necessary in the .38 Special. A BHN of 12 works well for me. (not necessary in the magnum either but makes loading easier)

I hope I helped a little. If you need more or different advice just ask. There are many knowledgeable loaders on this forum who are always willing to help.

 

[LeadFlyFly]

I didn't read all the posts in 3 pages so sorry if I repeat anything already said.

Since you're not sure of the primer I'm sure using 2400 is better than using HS-6 because 2400 doesn't require a magnum primer whereas HS-6 does.

A charge of 14.0gr 2400 under that 158gr bullet will produce a "real" .357 Magnum load. As for the ammo for your wife, why not just load up some .38 Special ammo in .38 Special cases? No reason to use all Magnum brass. Just be sure to clean the charge holes well because you can build up a carbon ring in the cylinder if not cleaned after each range trip. I suggest a charge of between 4.0gr and 4.5gr W231 under those 158gr bullets for your wife. She will be very happy with those loads.
If you want to use HS-6 for your wife's ammo use a magnum primer and a charge of 7.0gr HS-6 under those 158gr bullets in either case. In the .38 Special case that is a full power .38 Special +P load. I usually use a CCI-550 primer.

The Missouri Bullet Company sells that same bullet but without grease grooves for the same $45/500. I like the Hi-Tek 2 coated bullets for high pressure loads like the .357 Magnum but IMO its not necessary in the .38 Special. A BHN of 12 works well for me. (not necessary in the magnum either but makes loading easier)

I hope I helped a little. If you need more or different advice just ask. There are many knowledgeable loaders on this forum who are always willing to help.

Thanks for the info!! This was good timing because I just stepped back indoors after shooting some 38 specials in her GP100. I have limited powder choices right now and Ramshot Silhouette was already in the Lee powder measure (for 9mm), and I had load info for that so I loaded some up. This was 5.2 grains of R SIL and the 158 gr. HiTek SWCBB. It's the minimum charge, but I do see that there is published data for copper and jacketed bullets that start at 4.8 gr. I have a steel pumpkin at 50 feet that I shoot for testing, and I hit 6/6 single action, then 6/6 double action with this load. It is a light load, but I don't know that it's "tiny Asian wife" light. I have seen mention on this thread (I think) and definitely other threads about moving DOWN from the minimum, but I thought that was a big no-no. If you can shed some light on that it would be great. I realize that if I don't hear the ping on the steel I could have a problem. Or is this just the wrong approach entirely, and I shouldn't go below the minimum charge? I am putting what I believe is a healthy crimp on them. 38 special mixed brass and Fort Smith primers that I did myself.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thanks for the info!! This was good timing because I just stepped back indoors after shooting some 38 specials in her GP100. I have limited powder choices right now and Ramshot Silhouette was already in the Lee powder measure (for 9mm), and I had load info for that so I loaded some up. This was 5.2 grains of R SIL and the 158 gr. HiTek SWCBB. It's the minimum charge, but I do see that there is published data for copper and jacketed bullets that start at 4.8 gr. I have a steel pumpkin at 50 feet that I shoot for testing, and I hit 6/6 single action, then 6/6 double action with this load. It is a light load, but I don't know that it's "tiny Asian wife" light. I have seen mention on this thread (I think) and definitely other threads about moving DOWN from the minimum, but I thought that was a big no-no. If you can shed some light on that it would be great. I realize that if I don't hear the ping on the steel I could have a problem. Or is this just the wrong approach entirely, and I shouldn't go below the minimum charge? I am putting what I believe is a healthy crimp on them. 38 special mixed brass and Fort Smith primers that I did myself.

I'm going to suggest that working down a charge ladder to find the optimum minimal load for a given powder and projectile combination requires a good bit of handloading experience and is not to be taken lightly - any more than exceeding maximum recommended charges (going up-ladder into "+P" territory) should be, or swapping powder/projectile data. I highly recommend sticking to published data for your powder and projectile. If you want to experiment with going under recommended starting loads, look for lower published data.

 

[Blue68f100]

Thanks for the info!! This was good timing because I just stepped back indoors after shooting some 38 specials in her GP100. I have limited powder choices right now and Ramshot Silhouette was already in the Lee powder measure (for 9mm), and I had load info for that so I loaded some up. This was 5.2 grains of R SIL and the 158 gr. HiTek SWCBB. It's the minimum charge, but I do see that there is published data for copper and jacketed bullets that start at 4.8 gr. I have a steel pumpkin at 50 feet that I shoot for testing, and I hit 6/6 single action, then 6/6 double action with this load. It is a light load, but I don't know that it's "tiny Asian wife" light. I have seen mention on this thread (I think) and definitely other threads about moving DOWN from the minimum, but I thought that was a big no-no. If you can shed some light on that it would be great. I realize that if I don't hear the ping on the steel I could have a problem. Or is this just the wrong approach entirely, and I shouldn't go below the minimum charge? I am putting what I believe is a healthy crimp on them. 38 special mixed brass and Fort Smith primers that I did myself.

With a revolver it's not big deal in working down. Just be aware that the bullet clears the muzzle. Normally a fast burn powder is used for this, but most any powder (non magnum) can be used. With a simi-auto you need enough power to work the slide and feed the next round. Lead is the preferred bullet for reduced loads since it has the least amount of friction going down the barrel. For 357 mag and 158gr LSWC, 4.8 gr of WST is what I use. WST burns very clean even below min charges.

 

[LeadFlyFly]

Thanks for the responses!! I think I will go the conservative route and just get a different powder. I have other things to keep me busy right now too- the shims for my trigger, hammer, and hammer dog just came in the mail from triggershims.com so I will be playing gunsmith tonight!

 

[sugarmaker]

For me a 357 loaded with 158 and full book load of 2400 or even better 296 is louder than a 44. Loaded down using 4 grains of bullseye and 110 bullet is very enjoyable, my youngest likes this load. Some may chuckle but if I want some whomp without lots of noise I use the 500 with Berrys 350’s and red dot for 900 FPS. Knocks stuff over without compressing my sinuses and aggravating my tinnitus.

 

[Bfh_auto]

For me a 357 loaded with 158 and full book load of 2400 or even better 296 is louder than a 44. Loaded down using 4 grains of bullseye and 110 bullet is very enjoyable, my youngest likes this load. Some may chuckle but if I want some whomp without lots of noise I use the 500 with Berrys 350’s and red dot for 900 FPS. Knocks stuff over without compressing my sinuses and aggravating my tinnitus.

Do your gun a favor and don't mix H110 and 110 grain bullets. I shot a beautiful k frame loose with them. They sure are fun though.

 

[LeadFlyFly]

Confirmed- the 38 special loads with 5.2 grains of Silhouette are a winner. Some unburned powder, but you can't have everything- where would you put it?

 

[LeadFlyFly]

In a weak moment, I ordered 1000 of the Acme 105 grain flat-nosed coated lead bullets. I didn't check my manuals first- I mean, these days when you see something cool and available in reloading supplies- you just jump!!! But I'm not seeing 38 special load data on this bullet in the Western Powders manual or Lyman or even Lee that has tons of loads listed. Lee does have 110 gr. jacketed and 110 gr. XTP data. Pressure will be slightly lower with a lead bullet and my bullet is very lightly lighter, so can I use the recommendation of 6.1-6.7 grains of Ramshot Silhouette (for 110 gr. jacketed) or the 6.3-6.9 grains of Silhouette for 110 gr. XTP bullets?

And while I am asking, why is there a separate category for 110 gr. jacketed and 110 gr. XTP if XTP is a jacketed bullet? Or is it just because Lee manuals are all compiled from different sources and they found sources for both so printed both? Both of these (the starting of 6.1 and starting of 6.3 gr.) are listed in PSI, not CUP in the manual- Lee Second Edition.

Thoughts? These will be target/plinking so I was thinking of doing a ladder of 6.1 to 6.4 grains just to see if there is any reason (accuracy or unburned powder) not to use 6.1 grains.

 

[AJC1]

In a weak moment, I ordered 1000 of the Acme 105 grain flat-nosed coated lead bullets. I didn't check my manuals first- I mean, these days when you see something cool and available in reloading supplies- you just jump!!! But I'm not seeing 38 special load data on this bullet in the Western Powders manual or Lyman or even Lee that has tons of loads listed. Lee does have 110 gr. jacketed and 110 gr. XTP data. Pressure will be slightly lower with a lead bullet and my bullet is very lightly lighter, so can I use the recommendation of 6.1-6.7 grains of Ramshot Silhouette (for 110 gr. jacketed) or the 6.3-6.9 grains of Silhouette for 110 gr. XTP bullets?

And while I am asking, why is there a separate category for 110 gr. jacketed and 110 gr. XTP if XTP is a jacketed bullet? Or is it just because Lee manuals are all compiled from different sources and they found sources for both so printed both? Both of these (the starting of 6.1 and starting of 6.3 gr.) are listed in PSI, not CUP in the manual- Lee Second Edition.

Thoughts? These will be target/plinking so I was thinking of doing a ladder of 6.1 to 6.4 grains just to see if there is any reason (accuracy or unburned powder) not to use 6.1 grains.

Download the western powders manual for free and check their data. If you dont find any joy I will start looking.

 

[LeadFlyFly]

Download the western powders manual for free and check their data. If you dont find any joy I will start looking.

I've actually printed that manual since I bought 4 pounds of Silhouette- but no luck on 105 grain in the 38 special section. Probably Silhouette is too fast for 357 since it's not listed in that section at all- and I use 2400 for 357.