.357 magnum: Korth vs. Smith

[oldfool]

if you have to ask the price, don't
if you don't have to ask the price, do
pretty much that simple

nothing wrong with owning both, and/or a $25,000 O/U
(if you don't have to ask the price)
nothing wrong with owning a Hi-Point either, if you have to ask the price

no bashing required, no justification required, just dinero required

$600 k-frames suit my "needs"
but if I hit the mega-lotto, some $6000 guns will suit my "needs"

 

[rayman]

You know what I like about S&W's and colts? They're American and are a big part of American history. Lawmen, outlaws, soldiers and civillians have handled Smiths and Colts. That's cool in my book. A lot of them are passed down though generations too.

 

[bragmardo]

You know what I like about guns? They throw lead to the point of my aim, time after time, through thick and thin, with a minimum of fuss. The moment I am confronted with a target needful of leading, the national origins and historical cachet of my leading device become irrelevant. Performance is all that matters.

 

[JohnBT]

"Its okay...I coach high schoolers"

You're acting like them. You misread what I posted. Give it up.

 

[Guillermo]

okay John...on the baseline

give me a 6 by 36

 

[Cosmoline]

I have two Registered Magnums in excellent mechanical shape.

! What's going on over there? Where are you--the happy land where everyone gets a bunch of incredibly rare and expensive wheelguns? Korths for under a grand. Registered Magnums all over the place. Maybe I just need to move there.

In the mean time, Wayne Anthony Ross has all the good iron in this state and the rest of us have to make do with what we can afford.

 

[rayman]

That's cool Mr bragmardo. A gun is a gun to you as long as it shoots the way you want it to. One more thing brago, do you have a dude in europe who shoots like Jerry Miculek with a korth?

 

[Shoot66]

I, too, have to disagree with the equalization of Korth and status. I would say, that in Europe, Korth revolvers are primarily considered a sport tool. As it was already mentioned, it is not necessarily about snobbery but getting the best, one can afford, if performance matters.
At the same time, the price for guns can differ dramatically in different parts of the world. A mint Korth can be found for less than a half the price of a new Freedom Arms revolver, here. I paid 1300 € i.e. 1690 USD for a mint Colt Python (6`` Royal Blue) last August. Believe it or not, I considered it a reasonable price in local conditions.
I also tend to agree with bragmardo. The best place in Europe to look for quality second-hand guns is Germany (egun.de).

 

[Zsnark]

I have never seen a Korth in the flesh. I'm sure it's excellent. But, I am totally comfortable with my 30+ year old S&W M19 which I have target sights and trigger/hammer and which I had a trigger job done by a guy named Buzz who has long since disappeared from my radar. I also have a 30+ year old Python which, when I'm not indulging my auto pistol habit, is a joy to shoot; even with hot loads. I'd really like to run into a Korth and even put a box of .357 through it just ought of curiosity. But, my 19 is a tack driver with .38s, and my Python is pretty damn accurate as well. I am satisfied.

 

[bragmardo]

I concede that a shooter mainly relying on .38 Special loads would be equally well served by a S&W M19 or a Colt Python. Then again, unless I need to reach out and touch someone with the terminal ballistics of a .357 Magnum, I'd much rather employ a good service grade 9mm Para such as a SIG P49 or a Radom Vis wz35, than any revolver ever made.

 

[Shoot66]

Does P210 count, too?

 

[bragmardo]

Does P210 count, too?

They might, depending on the vintage. Late production "sport" triggers tend southward of mediocrity.

 

[dnovo]

I have several P210s and am generally quite pleased with them. I have one that Wayne Novak rebuilt and customized some years ago that is just outstanding. A lesser known iteration of the P210 is the Hammerli P240, a pure target model that is a whole different animal. I have one in 32 SW Long and one in 38 Special. Both are designed to shoot wadcutters and are frightenly accurate and have actions and triggers that have to be experienced to be appreciated. They can very occasionally be found on the secondary market. Roco Systems in Texas and Larry's Guns in Maine usually have one or two for sale and sell parts and extra mags. Quality of construction is tops, and the match of any Korth I have handled. Dave

 

[PzGren]

Korth, great quality. I have not found a D/A revolver comparing to it, qualitywise.



K22, decent quality and is close to a rimfire Korth on the range - but not in D/A!!!



P210-4 unbelievable quality!




but there are 1911s out there that are as good...



...or are they better? In .45 ACP? At the firing line, there is little difference, in a dark alley , when your life is on the line, there is. But then I'd rather forget those unpleasantries of life.

 

[PzGren]

.....A lesser known iteration of the P210 is the Hammerli P240, a pure target model that is a whole different animal. I have one in 32 SW Long ....

They are indeed formidable target pistols! I had the pleasure to shoot them and found them superbly accurate.

 

[L-Frame]

If you are curious about more details about a Korth Combat Revolver specifically, check out Gun-Tests magazine, the July 2002 issue. It gives many amazing details about this gun. They were pretty amazed by it. The overall quality, accuracy, and just about everything else. It takes 4 months to build, with 70% being by hand, and the steel has a Rockwell Scale hardness of 60. Very interesting read if you want to to to their web site and order the issue. They called it the "Ultimate conditional buy". They also said that it was the gun you expect to be be produced if cost was absolutely no object.

 

[bragmardo]

I have several dozen military P49 and commercial P210 pistols. Except for a P210-5LS bought for its unique balance, I wouldn't want to own one numbered above P309999 or thereabouts. The best of the breed were built between the mid-Sixties and the early Eighties. Very early guns are a little better finished, but not quite as durable. The late CNC production runs with MIM firing systems nave hit-and-miss triggers with no room for improvement. This is especially true of the guns fitted at the factory with a lateral magazine catch, which interferes with the trigger stop screw.

 

[Confederate]

The Korth is very much like a Sebenza knife. The Sebenza is hand fitted, has a titanium frame, a 3-inch S30V blade and costs as much as a good revolver. I have a CRKT S-2 that has a titanium frame that's every bit as good as a Sebenza's, a high quality 4-inchnATS-34 blade (which is nearly as good as an S30V), and it cost a fraction of what the Sebenza cost. (In fact, I got mine for $25, including shipping, which was an astounding price, but you can find good used ones for $100.)

Does the Sebenza cut better than other knives with S30V blades? No. Does it cut longer, or last longer? No. But it is hand fitted and comes with a nice pouch so your keys and change don't mar it.

As regarding the Korth, if those assembling them checked every chamber, making sure the throats were precisely .357, and ensuring that the barrel/cylinder gap was precisely .006 and the headspace precisely .005, and that each chamber was precisely aligned with the barrel and that each was tight. In other words, make each gun as close to another as possible.

If Korth can't do that, then it can't really capitalize on producing a hand-fitted gun. S&W clearly made their first 686s to go head-to-head with Colt's Python, and gun writers were able to demonstrate that repeatedly -- even independent magazines that weren't in the manufacturers' back pocket. I don't know about current 686s, but the first 686s were, I think, far superior to those made today. Actually, I'd like to see some side-by-side comparisons of Colt Pythons and current production 686s.

I think Rugers are more likely to shoot longer if not as accurately as the Korths.

 

[bragmardo]

As repeatedly recounted before, Korth revolvers are made of much stronger materials to much tighter tolerances than their mass produced counterparts. Instead of being cast, molded, or machined, their components are precision ground. Instead of being assembled from parts bins, they are individually hand fitted. This fitting includes control of critical dimensions to a degree impossible to maintain in mass production and ensures their precision fit lasting orders of magnitude longer. In so far as these facts have been demonstrated time and again in independent tests and testimonials, I question the point of sharing opinions that fail to take them into account.

 

[PzGren]

As regarding the Korth, if those assembling them checked every chamber, making sure the throats were precisely .357, and ensuring that the barrel/cylinder gap was precisely .006 and the headspace precisely .005, and that each chamber was precisely aligned with the barrel and that each was tight. In other words, make each gun as close to another as possible.

If Korth can't do that, then it can't really capitalize on producing a hand-fitted gun.

What exactly is your point here? Korth did produce the revolvers to the tightest of tolerances, I do not know how the quality is since they re-opened but I have had the pleasure to have visited the old Korth shop in Ratzeburg. Calling it a factory would be wrong, Wilson is a much, much larger operation.

Your comparison of a Ruger to a Korth in durability and accuracy is definitely not based on first hand experience, the differences in quality are too vast to describe and the trigger pull on a Korth, with the trigger on rollers, really does not compare to a Ruger D.A. revolver. Among American D.A. revolvers of the big makers, Ruger has the worst trigger pulls, that is based on my experience and the 4 Ruger D.A. revolvers that I still own.

We have a lot of opinions here but few are based on facts or qualified first hand experience.

 

[JohnBT]

"Does the Sebenza cut better than other knives with S30V blades? No. Does it cut longer, or last longer? No. But it is hand fitted and comes with a nice pouch so your keys and change don't mar it."

Wait a minute, neither one of my Sebenzas came with a pouch.

But it's okay, I use the pocket clip. If I can get the asphalt-aluminum roof coat and oil paint off the oldest one I'm going to send it back for a refinish and a good sharpening.

 

[bragmardo]

My Sebenza is overdue for return to Chris Reeve for having reached the limit of its frame lock travel. That sort of thing never happens to my Skirmishes.

 

[DM~]

Years ago i saw a test of a Korth in one of the gun rags, probably Guns N Ammo?? Anyway, they couldn't fire two cylinder loads double action in a row (rapid fire) without the cyl. binding up from too close of tolerances... Not what i want in a hunting gun, that will live in the bush with me for a week or three at a time!

From what "I" personally have seen, they aren't any better quality than the old S&W pre M-27's and early M-29's...

DM

 

[bragmardo]

Years ago i saw a test of a Korth in one of the gun rags, probably Guns N Ammo?? Anyway, they couldn't fire two cylinder loads double action in a row (rapid fire) without the cyl. binding up from too close of tolerances... Not what i want in a hunting gun, that will live in the bush with me for a week or three at a time!

This media device is known as FUD. Late production Korth revolvers, including the one tested in the referenced review, have fully adjustable barrel to cylinder gaps, in the manner of Dan Wesson. In other words, they can be set to accommodate any degree of fouling without binding.

From what "I" personally have seen, they aren't any better quality than the old S&W pre M-27's and early M-29's...

What exactly have you seen personally, aside from ill-informed media accounts?

 

[PzGren]

From what "I" personally have seen, they aren't any better quality than the old S&W pre M-27's and early M-29's...

I would also like to know what exactly "you" have seen. Korths are rare and the few dealers that have one, will most likely not let you handle it enough to make a proper evaluation.