357 magnum load going to try Saturday...First time! What do you think?

[crestoncowboy]

Bless their marketing spirit.

I've used 10s of thousands of their plated bullets mostly in .400. Great low dollar bullets but

My first thought matched your line

 

[Bfh_auto]

I have never heard of such a slow rate. Is it for .357? I thought .357's were best around 15 or so. Aren't roundball muskets in to 1:30 range?

It's a 20" rifle barrel. It does stabilize 180s though. Kind of apples and oranges comparing it to a handgun.
I agree with hooda thunkit. With shorter barrels more powder isn't better.
I was just giving a reference that speed isn't always the killer of plated. The twist rate and roughness of the rifling add in make the whole.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Well we gonna find out tomorrow mornin!!!

Risk it for the biscuit!

 

[Walkalong]

Looking forward to the range report

 

[joneb]

I have found trying to crimp and seat a plated bullet in one step will deform the bullet and compromise the plating using a RCBC roll or taper crimp die, so I seat and crimp in separate steps.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Well I've never loaded 357 magnum to magnum velocity. Mainly due to the fact of never having jacketed bullets.

Not trying to rain on your parade, but questioning your sources. I have been spitting out rounds loaded with 148 gr. LSCW cast with wheel-weight lead. Per Lee #2 loaded with 6.4 gr. Unigue shows 1,465 fps at 33,800 PSI. Shot from a 686 I get minimal leading that is removed with a brush wrapped with bronze wool. For info on the feeding of lead bullets go to http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm.

Looking forward to your results.

 

[Bazoo]

One thing I didn't see considered is not only the bullets weight but it's used case volume. With 296, because it doesn't like to be reduced, when I use a bullet for which there is no specific data, I find a bullet with data, of the same weight that also takes up the same case volume. In other words, from the base to the crimp groove.

 

[derek45]

I get much better accuracy with H110/win296 or 2400 with quality cast and coated bullets, compared to plated.

I use a FIRM roll crimp and magnum primers with H110/win296

I've shot thousands of 357, and 44 magnum loads to +1400fps with cast bullets.

I prefer something with a good crimp groove, like a Keith.

these are home cast and clear powder coated



note the roll crimp



Powder coated Keith bullets







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before I learned about powder coating, I'd use a lubamatic to fill with wax lube, these also have copper gas checks

 

[jmorris]

Did they do OK?

 

[Jonesy814]

I have loaded Extreme plated bullets with up to 15.1 grains of Win 296. They run great

 

[joneb]

What it is verses what it really is could be two different animals

 

[Hondo 60]

I would be a bit uncomfortable with the parts & reloading data.
Your load would require a solid roll crimp.
And a solid roll crimp with a plated bullets is not such a good idea.
You run the risk of having the lead bullet separate from the copper coating.

 

[sequins]

I think you want to switch to coated lead over plated for magnum loads. You can run coated to 1800 FPS on a good coat, and cheaper than plated I find.

 

[forrest r]

I think you want to switch to coated lead over plated for magnum loads. You can run coated to 1800 FPS on a good coat, and cheaper than plated I find.

You can push coated bullets a lot faster than 1800fps. I've had them up to 2900fps+ and others have pushed them 3100fps+.

 

[Riomouse911]

I have never heard of such a slow rate. Is it for .357? I thought .357's were best around 15 or so. Aren't roundball muskets in to 1:30 range?

Rossi rifles have a 1-30” twist. Marlins are 1-16” I believe.

Stay safe.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Rossi rifles have a 1-30” twist. Marlins are 1-16” I believe.

Stay safe.

That makes the Rossi perfect for pushing cast bullets as hard as you can. I've run those Hornady 158 cowboy bullets at 1800 with just a hint of leading that cleaned up with normal cleaning.
It was kind of amazing to me after seeing leading at much lower velocities in other guns.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I have found trying to crimp and seat a plated bullet in one step will deform the bullet and compromise the plating using a RCBC roll or taper crimp die, so I seat and crimp in separate steps.

That seems to be a common practice these days. It allows one to choose a crimp to match the type of bullet one chooses. I try to roll crimp all of my revolver ammo and taper crimp all of my auto ammo. There is always some nut job that wants to shoot an auto cartridge in a revolver and vice versa. There is no hope for those individuals but the reloading companies try to accomodate those lost souls.

I've never loaded plated bullets. It's either coated lead or FMJ. I see no point in plated bullets for high velocity cartridges like 357. Buy FMJ bullets or shoot lead. Most coated lead retailers say hard cast lead is good to 1500 fps.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I get much better accuracy with H110/win296 or 2400 with quality cast and coated bullets, compared to plated.

I use a FIRM roll crimp and magnum primers with H110/win296

I've shot thousands of 357, and 44 magnum loads to +1400fps with cast bullets.

I prefer something with a good crimp groove, like a Keith.

these are home cast and clear powder coated

View attachment 1008983

note the roll crimp

View attachment 1008984

Powder coated Keith bullets

View attachment 1008985

View attachment 1008986

View attachment 1008987

.
.
.
before I learned about powder coating, I'd use a lubamatic to fill with wax lube, these also have copper gas checks

View attachment 1008988

Well, there you go. Coated cast at 1400 fps. I believe it because I've used coated cast in a 30 Carbine at 1700 fps. No leading and accuracy is right up there with FMJ.

I'm a huge fan of FMJ but coated is taking over the pistol cartridge market. Plating is just a sub for FMJ. If you hunt then FMJ is useful because bullet expansion is critical. Target shooting, not so much.

 

[joneb]

A update from the OP would be nice.

 

[forrest r]

It's usually doesn't end well when you can hear a pin drop when it comes to posting results.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Got to shoot it today:

One thing after another happened and didn't get to make it until today. As you guys expected, results sucked. Read below for suckery...

So I worked my way up through some loads and below are the outcomes and order shot in...

• 6.3gr of Unique with normal primers...Decently accurate and a puppy to shoot.
  
• 8.3gr of Unique with normal primers...Quite hot, large fireball from sides of cylinder. AMAZINGLY accurate!
• 15gr of 296 with mag primers...Clearly into magnum territory. Accuracy was falling apart and holes in paper target grew in size.
• 16gr of 296 with mag primers...Enough to have the only other guy there, 3 bays down to ask me "*** are you shooting? I can feel the concussion down there." Fireball from cylinder gap was legendary and accuracy was a joke.
  
• Factory loaded Remington UMC 357 Magnum fired lastly to compare. Grouping was as good as my 8.3gr Unique load and more importantly the holes were nice and neat compared to the both 296 loads which were almost double the size. Unstable bullets?

Bore looks decently shiny and in the grooves I can see some streaking (maybe leading?)

 

[Bfh_auto]

Got to shoot it today:

One thing after another happened and didn't get to make it until today. As you guys expected, results sucked. Read below for suckery...

So I worked my way up through some loads and below are the outcomes and order shot in...

• 6.3gr of Unique with normal primers...Decently accurate and a puppy to shoot.
  
• 8.3gr of Unique with normal primers...Quite hot, large fireball from sides of cylinder. AMAZINGLY accurate!
• 15gr of 296 with mag primers...Clearly into magnum territory. Accuracy was falling apart and holes in paper target grew in size.
• 16gr of 296 with mag primers...Enough to have the only other guy there, 3 bays down to ask me "*** are you shooting? I can feel the concussion down there." Fireball from cylinder gap was legendary and accuracy was a joke.
  
• Factory loaded Remington UMC 357 Magnum fired lastly to compare. Grouping was as good as my 8.3gr Unique load and more importantly the holes were nice and neat compared to the both 296 loads which were almost double the size. Unstable bullets?

Bore looks decently shiny and in the grooves I can see some streaking (maybe leading?)

You found the why I shoot hitec coated lead bullets when I run H110.

H110 is great fun indoors though
Thoroughly clean your barrel and run the unique load until you get jacketed or coated cast bullets.

 

[Stopsign32v]

So I guess the plus is I cleaned the barrel and a couple runs of CLP on a brass brush followed with 2 cloth patches the bore looks brand new. No leading at all

 

[joneb]

Thanks for the feed back, my 357 mag. plated bullet load w/a 158gr is around 8.2gr of Accurate #5.
It doesn't surprise your 8.3gr of Unique worked well.

 

[P Flados]

FYI, Your load with 8.3 gr of Unique is probably over the SAAMI 35,000 psi limit. It is just under the old 1987 Hercules load data I have. The older data used the cup measurement methods. Many loads using the cup method were found to be under reporting peak pressures. Charges were typically reduced quite a bit after they figured out what was going on.

The 2004 Alliant data (using the newer methods that report in psi) goes to 7.8 gr for a 158 JSP. I looked at Alliant on-line data and 7.7 gr was the highest charge I noted for any 158 bullet.

I ran a 158 gr cast with gas check through Quickload and found predicted pressure for 7.7 gr goes right to the SAAMI limit with the bullet seated 0.360" deep. Going down to 7.6 grs lets you seat as deep as 0.377" with predicted pressure right at the limit.

The GP-100 is pretty tough. I am guessing it can take more abuse than your loads. Running a few hot loads through a GP-100 for load testing is one thing. Loading above SAAMI does run some risk given that some of your ammo could potentially end up in a much less stout gun. I would recommend backing off consistent with the Alliant on-line max if you are going to use Unique for a regular load. You will still be getting close to 1300 fps in your 5" revolver.