.357 Magnum Powder Choice?

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I "believe" you I was commenting on the "double base" powder post.

Don't shoot enough full house mag loads enough to really need MAX POWER Scotty!:D
 
ArchAngelCD said:
I'm not unhappy with W296 for the most part, I have over 6 pounds and 7k SPM primers so no problem there. I was just hoping 300-MP would equal the performance but reduce the flash but it doesn't sound like it generates less flash.
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Back when the powders shelves were empty at most very LGS I went to, 300-MP was still available. While I had a good stockpile of H110/W296 and IMR4227 left, I was tempted to buy and try the 300-MP just to save my reserve and to see if it really was all it was advertised to be. Seemed at that time many other folks thought the same thing and the reviews they gave online about it were only so-so/ho-hum. That's still what I see.


Rule3 said:
IMR 4227??
Right up there with H110 as to velocity per Hodgdon.
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...as per my experience, not so much. Can't get enough of it in a case to equal H110/W296. Still in my .44s and .460, the little bit of velocity loss is countered with superior accuracy. With 158s in .357, H110/W296 is still the accuracy winner for me, outta my firearms. Exception is my .357 lever. Velocity is not everything, especially when hunting with a handgun caliber firearm.


Rule3 said:
Per the Hodgdon MSDS, LIL GUN is double based as is H110 and many others?

Guess erosion is like shooting 125 gr bullets out of a K frame?:confused:

Perhaps after a few thousand??
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Besides the experience of Bob Baker President of Freedom Arms, it is also a well known phenomenon from folks that shoot .460 revolvers. Excessive forcing cone erosion after as few as 50-100 rounds, to the point of barrels needing to be replaced. A few years back, Lil' Gun was touted as the new "Holy Grail" for magnum handguns on reloading forums and everyone was rushing to try it. Now it's rare to even see any new thread on it for revolvers other than about excessive flame cutting and forcing cone erosion. It's no coincidence.
 
I use mostly W296/H110 for full power .357 Magnum loads but I'm wanting to try a new powder.

If I would rather not use 2400 but wanted something different than W296/H110 would Alliant PP 300-MP be a good choice?
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Yesterday I tried my first loads with MP-300 in .357 magnum. I'm one who thinks 296/110 are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and I use it in several magnums, and tried the MP-300 more out of curiosity than anything. The velocities on Alliant's website also got my interest.

I used old Bull-X 158gr SWC bullets, something I've loaded extensively with 296/110.
I loaded with 17.5, 18.0 and 18.5 gr. I shot at 50 yards. Each load got progressively tighter as the charge increased. My 18.5 loaded ended up about 100fps faster than my 296/110 loads of 17gr, and my groups were a little big tighter. My note aren't available, but it was in the mid 1400's fps. I finished with a lead free gun barrel like normal.

I'm looking forward to testing in 44 mag and 454 Casull, but based on my 357 loads, its very similar to 110/296, with similar results. It also feels like 110/296 when you shoot it. Based on this one caliber, if you are looking for something "different", you won't find it in MP-300, but if you are looking for Alliant's equal or better version of 296/110, MP-300 is for you. I'll report more calibers as I test them. Alliant boasts that none of their powders need magnum primers, but I used them (CCI) anyways. Eventually I'll test some without.
 
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Thank you TimSr, very good range report. I understand what you said and appreciate it. Even though it's not radically different it's at least good to know I have another option.
 
The only issue I have with 300MP is that some of the published data is too light and can result in squibs. If you use the data published by Alliant (my problem was with hornady data), you will be good.

I have had spectacular results in both .357 and .44 magnum. For .44 magnum, my most accurate load of all time is a Montana Gold 240 grain JSP with 21.5 grains of 300MP. I am not the best shooter, even at a rest, and I can easily put them within 1/2 inch from a rest.

For .357, my best loads a 158 grain Zero bullet JSP with either 15.5 or 17 grains of 300MP. My groups opened up interestingly enough between those two loads.

I still use some other powders but for my full tilt magnum loads, it is my favorite powder now. it meters like bullseye and is on the inexpensive side as far as magnum powders go. Like all Alliant powders, no magnum primers required either.
 
300-MP muzzle flash? Maybe just a little:

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That's 21 grains behind a 125 grain .357 bullet. I've fired hundreds of these and no flame cutting at all. But plenty of recoil!

And the best part is it knocks all the loose brass out of the ceiling tiles.
 
The only issue I have with 300MP is that some of the published data is too light and can result in squibs. If you use the data published by Alliant (my problem was with hornady data), you will be good.

I have had spectacular results in both .357 and .44 magnum. For .44 magnum, my most accurate load of all time is a Montana Gold 240 grain JSP with 21.5 grains of 300MP.
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I'm interested in whether you have experimented with stepping that load up, as it is pretty light as well. With cast bullets my groups got tighter as I increased. Alliant listed max loads are just above 110/296 loads, 25gr for that bullet, and the 23-24gr load for 110/296 is almost a standard.
 
Out of my 1894 .357 most accurate loads at 100yds have been with 4227, but not that much more than H110. And 200fps slower. So 4227 isn't my carbine load.

If you want actual numbers I can go look in my notes.

I think I'm going to try some 300-MP but will be warmer weather before I can test.
 
In the last shortage when I couldn't find H110 I bought a few lbs of Enforcer because it was available every time I went to the local shop.

I found good loads in 327 FM, 357 and 44 mag. All using lead.
 
I would not use 300-MP with lead bullets, because I am not aware of any professional load data to support that. My attempt at extrapolation from available data resulted in a stuck 44 Mag bullet and a good whippin' by comments on the unforgiving forums. Even with published loads I find the powder makes quite a mess of the gun and the brass.

My favorite is Enforcer or its twin A4100. My AA#9 is reserved for 327 Federal Magnum, a perfect marriage. I recently tried H110 just to have the experience and was very impressed with it.
 
I too am hoping 300-MP will work well in 357. 2400 hasn't been on the shelves here in a while.

I have went from loading 158 gr. down to 140 gr. bullets. So far I haven't seen any load dat for the 300 with 140 gr. But there is for 125 & 158 gr.

Looking forward to see about other's results. :)
 
I like the H110 for full tilt boogy 158gr loads, so I have some of them laying around.
But typically I'm a Unique fan for anything lighter than that, and for the 125 JHP loads that I keep for defense and/or plinking.
I haven't tried the 300MP

The last batch though, I rolled up with Herco. I was pretty pleased with the velocity (50-100 FPS faster than the Unique) and the flash and boom were about the equivalent to unique. Accuracy was good too! Not very flashy, or nearly as loud as the H110.

I still like to run them full speed, but the older I get, the more I'm starting to appreciate the 3/4 throttle loads of unique, and herco.
 
Ironicaintit said:
I like the H110 for full tilt boogy 158gr loads, so I have some of them laying around.
But typically I'm a Unique fan for anything lighter than that, and for the 125 JHP loads that I keep for defense and/or plinking.
I haven't tried the 300MP

The last batch though, I rolled up with Herco. I was pretty pleased with the velocity (50-100 FPS faster than the Unique) and the flash and boom were about the equivalent to unique. Accuracy was good too! Not very flashy, or nearly as loud as the H110.

I still like to run them full speed, but the older I get, the more I'm starting to appreciate the 3/4 throttle loads of unique, and herco.
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You would probably like HS-6 for that moderate load.
 
I only asked about AA#9 because it can be safely downloaded to what AA#7 will deliver while leaving room above in case you need more velocity for whatever reason that comes along.
 
There's something I noticed years ago when reloading for .357 in my firearms that seems to be confirmed here. Which is, that loading for most .357s is fairly simple and most of the common powders intended for use in .357, work fairly well in a variety of firearms, when used within their intended parameters. Years ago when I was more adventurous and liked to experiment, I found that powder choice took a back seat to projectile choice in my .357s. Seemed if a bullet worked well in my revolvers or carbines with H110/W296 and the velocities it produced, the same was true when I used Unique, 2400, any of the AAs, etc. When the first powder shortage came along, I experimented again with powders that were readily available when my favorites were hard to get. Again, I noticed very little difference in overall accuracy performance from proven projectiles, just the difference in velocity. I have my favorites that I now buy in bulk because they have proven themselves to me, are affordable and work well. When a new powder is introduced, I tend to stand back and wait for others to test it first. Most of the time, it seems the reports are all about the same. Great powder, but no better than what I've been using. One of the things that may have made me a tad more reluctant to try the newest and latest fad was the Lil' Gun fiasco. There for a while the interweb was ablaze with all the reports of astounding velocities while producing unbelievable low pressure. One could now shoot 300 fps faster in their revolvers with half the pressure! Nowadays since the evidence of the excessive premature forcing cone erosion it produced, you rarely hear of anyone using it in their revolvers. I still have a few rounds of .357 and .44 left to pull. I already pulled all the .460s.
 
Unless you want all the whiz bang you can get, and I don't, 2400 and AA #9 are hard to beat in .357. I had some W-196 many years ago (Metal can), and it shot well and had a real big boom, but I decided I liked 158s at 1250/1300ish better than the screamers. Too much flash and blast to suit me. I'd rather pull out the .44 Mag if I wanted more power without all the flash and blast.

Of course some folks love the flash and blast, and more power to them. :)
 
My favorite powder for .357 is 2400, but I'm out of that and have recently been testing some alternatives I have on hand. Here are the chrono results with a 6.5" Blackhawk and a 20" M92:
(note - there does not seem to be any way to format this chart to make it readable here! I'll work on various edits to try and make it better.)

Powder____Blackhawk ____________M92
125g JSP - 158g JSP__125g JSP - 158g JSP​

800-X __ 1353 fps - 1173 fps ___ 1882 fps - 1543 fps
Acc #7__ 1339 fps - 1307 fps___ 1865 fps - 1727 fps
Longshot 1388 fps - 1158 fps____------ fps - 1450 fps
BE-86___1253 fps - 1075 fps
HS-6____1396 fps - 1081 fps
Unique __1414 fps
H110____1549 fps - 1434 fps____------ fps - 1850
2400____ ------ fps - 1347 fps
I do not have any Accurate #9, but would like to test it. Of the powders above H110/296 is clearly the most powerful, but 2400 shoots better for me. Next in line for full magnum loads is Accurate #7.

For mid-level magnums, it is either 800-X or Longshot. Unique is right in there somewhere, but I just have not sent those over the chrono to know where it really stands. BE-86 is sometimes described as the new Unique (based on the burn rate), but in my testing it is clearly NOT a magnum powder, at least not in the classic large-case-volume magnums. I really bought it for my .40 S&W, but I have not tested it there yet.

I have not found anything to like with HS-6 in any caliber.
 
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buck460XVR said:
There's something I noticed years ago when reloading for .357 in my firearms that seems to be confirmed here. Which is, that loading for most .357s is fairly simple and most of the common powders intended for use in .357, work fairly well in a variety of firearms, when used within their intended parameters. Years ago when I was more adventurous and liked to experiment, I found that powder choice took a back seat to projectile choice in my .357s. Seemed if a bullet worked well in my revolvers or carbines with H110/W296 and the velocities it produced, the same was true when I used Unique, 2400, any of the AAs, etc. When the first powder shortage came along, I experimented again with powders that were readily available when my favorites were hard to get. Again, I noticed very little difference in overall accuracy performance from proven projectiles, just the difference in velocity. I have my favorites that I now buy in bulk because they have proven themselves to me, are affordable and work well. When a new powder is introduced, I tend to stand back and wait for others to test it first. Most of the time, it seems the reports are all about the same. Great powder, but no better than what I've been using. One of the things that may have made me a tad more reluctant to try the newest and latest fad was the Lil' Gun fiasco. There for a while the interweb was ablaze with all the reports of astounding velocities while producing unbelievable low pressure. One could now shoot 300 fps faster in their revolvers with half the pressure! Nowadays since the evidence of the excessive premature forcing cone erosion it produced, you rarely hear of anyone using it in their revolvers. I still have a few rounds of .357 and .44 left to pull. I already pulled all the .460s.
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Most of the discussion though seems about whatever will allow satisfactory use of lead bullets, which generally limits the performance provided by 357 Magnum reloads. Perhaps the truth is that a full powered 357 Magnum round is not as loved as some might think or that sales of the guns would suggest. It might even be true that the majority of the guns are used fro 38 Special.

In my guns big enough to handle it, I either shoot a stout HS-6 or one of the magnum powders, preferably Enforcer/A4100, but H110 is amazing too. None of them allow use of lead bullets without some leading. Even the coated bullets are leaving a mess. It's XTP for me, when the magnum powders come out. There are probably other great bullets, but the Hornadys are easy to source and not used a lot except mostly as chaser rounds to clear leading.
 
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