.357 Magnum Powder Choice?

[ArchAngelCD]

Unless you want all the whiz bang you can get, and I don't, 2400 and AA #9 are hard to beat in .357. I had some W-196 many years ago (Metal can), and it shot well and had a real big boom, but I decided I liked 158s at 1250/1300ish better than the screamers. Too much flash and blast to suit me. I'd rather pull out the .44 Mag if I wanted more power without all the flash and blast.

Of course some folks love the flash and blast, and more power to them.

I keep W296 around in case the occasion arises where I need high velocities but normally I use a powder not usually considered a magnum powder, HS-6. I load a lot of 158gr LSWC bullets in the .357 Magnum and HS-6 gives me all the velocity and accuracy I'm looking for. I save W296 for heavy jacketed bullets meant for my Carbine. (170gr or 180gr bullets)

 

[Walkalong]

I have found 90/95% 2400/AA #9 loads to have a less sharp recoil compared to full power medium speed powder loads. I like that. In other words, instead of a medium powder load for 158's at 1150/1200ish a slow powder load at 1250/1300ish is more pleasant to shoot IMO. I have an N340 125 Gr load that shoots lights out, at 1300ish FPS, but recoil is sharp.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Yeah, I'm no fan of sharp recoil. My bones are just too old for that now lol.

 

[gojones]

I have good results with 2400 for years with 158 grn JHP. Just have not found the need to change. Have a 6in. Dan Wesson bought in the early 80's and the gun just groups good at 25 yds with 2400. Plus, I really don't like pedal to the metal full blast loads. Just too hard on both me and the gun. Have found that something around 1200 fps is just fine.

 

[Milt1]

Some of the loads that I've had excellent groups with in my Ruger Blackhawk .357 are: 6.6 grains of HP-38 and Zero's 158 gr JSP, 10.0 grains of 2400 and Bayou's 158 gr SWC, 7.9 grains of HP-38 and Zero's 125 JHP and 15.5 grains of 2400 and Zero's 125 gr JHP. These are not excessive loads by any stretch. I have Accurate #9 which I've never tried but upon reading some of these posts, I'm going to give it a try.

 

[RealGun]

Some of the loads that I've had excellent groups with in my Ruger Blackhawk .357 are: 6.6 grains of HP-38 and Zero's 158 gr JSP, 10.0 grains of 2400 and Bayou's 158 gr SWC, 7.9 grains of HP-38 and Zero's 125 JHP and 15.5 grains of 2400 and Zero's 125 gr JHP. These are not excessive loads by any stretch. I have Accurate #9 which I've never tried but upon reading some of these posts, I'm going to give it a try.

If you like good case fill, among other things, so you can easily see the powder charge, you will like #9.

Anyone who has 2400 or something like #9, real magnum powders, should just use it rather than use faster powders to try to make a 38 special out of a gun big enough to handle the real deal. I think the longer dwell time with the slower burn and heavier bullet actually improves the shooting impression.

 

[vaalpens]

I have found 90/95% 2400/AA #9 loads to have a less sharp recoil compared to full power medium speed powder loads. I like that. In other words, instead of a medium powder load for 158's at 1150/1200ish a slow powder load at 1250/1300ish is more pleasant to shoot IMO. I have an N340 125 Gr load that shoots lights out, at 1300ish FPS, but recoil is sharp.

I am following this thread since I am thinking of trying another powder for 357mag and 357sig. I am happy with my current loads, but it would be nice to try something different to experience the difference in feel when using a more magnum specific powder. So far I am leaning toward trying AA#9, but I will then be limited to 357mag and 357sig use. I am also looking at trying AA#7, which will then expand the cartridge use to include 9mm and 40S&W.

Walkalong, since you were very specific why you like AA#9 in 357mag, have you tried AA#7 also, and what difference if any did you experience between the two? The WP load data shows about about a 70fps difference for a 158gr L SWC bullet using a 6" barrel.

 

[buck460XVR]

I have found 90/95% 2400/AA #9 loads to have a less sharp recoil compared to full power medium speed powder loads. I like that. In other words, instead of a medium powder load for 158's at 1150/1200ish a slow powder load at 1250/1300ish is more pleasant to shoot IMO. I have an N340 125 Gr load that shoots lights out, at 1300ish FPS, but recoil is sharp.

Same here, the difference is like a push compared to a slap. I always assumed it was the steeper power curve of the faster burning powders that made the "slap".

 

[murf]

i prefer blue dot with my 158 and 180 grain loads. i used to use the "old" blue dot with the 125 grain xtps back-in-the-day, but don't do that anymore with the "new" powder. note: i use cci500 primers and a heavy crimp.

luck,

murf

p.s. had to edit this post to cci500 primers. have never used mag primers with blue dot.

 

[Walkalong]

, have you tried AA#7 also, and what difference do you experience between the two?

I never have, as I have never bought any, but it is slower than the medium speed powders I alluded to. At some point a medium powder is going to be "sharper" in .357 than a slow powder, assuming velocities are reasonably close together.

I always assumed it was the steeper power curve of the faster burning powders that made the "slap".

Yes, and something rcmodel used to post about often.

Recoil is subjective of course, and people will disagree on what is "nice".

 

[GarrettJ]

I've been playing with Vhitavouri N110 recently using jacketed 158 and 180 gr. bullets.

Advantages are that it is a single-base powder that gives me higher velocities than H110/296. And like most Vhit powders, it burns extremely clean.

Disadvantages are that Vhit powders generally cost a little more than other powders, and are sometimes harder to find. Also, it's more of a stick powder, so it doesn't flow through the powder measure very well. I find I need to measure each charge individually. Powders like 4227 are like this as well. On the other hand, H110 and AA#9 run very consistently through a powder measure.

 

[Walkalong]

I pushed a 158 Gr SWC to 1250ish FPS with N-105 but it was sharper than 2400. When I backed it down the ES numbers were very poor.

I also tried N-110 and it did well. Both it and AA #9 with a 140 Gr XTP at 1250 to 1275ish FPS were nice. N-110 was compressed.

 

[vaalpens]

I never have, as I have never bought any, but it is slower than the medium speed powders I alluded to. At some point a medium powder is going to be "sharper" in .357 than a slow powder, assuming velocities are reasonably close together.

Yes, and something rcmodel used to post about often.

Recoil is subjective of course, and people will disagree on what is "nice".

Thanks Walkalong. I'll keep my eyes open for some AA#9 locally and pick up 1lb when available. Everybody loves AA#9 in 357sig, and it seems it is also working well in 357mag. Talking about slower powders. I have actually loaded up a few exploratory loads in 367mag using Longshot juts to get a baseline what to expect. For some reason there is not much in load data for lead bullets, so i will be a bit cautious trying Longshot.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have not had good accuracy with Longshot and Cast bullets in the .357 Magnum. Add the fact it's loud and very flashy like most shotgun powders are, I go to different powders instead. I use mostly HS-6 with cast bullets and 2400 is a better choice with Cast bullets over Longshot IMO.

 

[herkyguy]

Same here, I've got 1 lb of 296 left and haven't seen it available in over a year on a shelf. I've also got 2 lbs of 110 to take over when i'm out of 296, and 2 lbs of A#9, which also does great for me. I've got 1 lb of 300MP that I've yet to crack open..... so I'm following this thread closely.

Just throwing it out there, but I plan on eventually playing around with 800x since I've found a few references to loads with it and I've got some books using it for 44 Magnum, albeit with lower velocities than the rest. Mostly out of curiosity and the fact that I've got 2 lbs of it sitting around.

 

[Mauser69]

Just throwing it out there, but I plan on eventually playing around with 800x since I've found a few references to loads with it and I've got some books using it for 44 Magnum, albeit with lower velocities than the rest. Mostly out of curiosity and the fact that I've got 2 lbs of it sitting around.

Hodgdon does not provide current data for 800-X in .357, but older DuPont data did. Just glancing through the load data from 1983. it seems that max loads of 800-X with any bullet weight were just slightly faster than the same max load data for IMR 4227 (basically the same speeds at the same pressures for both powders at max loads). When I asked Hodgdon why they no longer included this load data, they simply said they thought there were better powders for .357.

.44 Mag is a different story - the same 1983 DuPont data shows 800-X max loads generally much faster than IMR 4227 with all bullets, especially jacketed. For example, with a Sierra 240g JHC, 14.2g 800-X us shown at 1,415 fps, but 22.0g 4227 only pushes that bullet at 1,275 fps.

These SHOULD be good comparisons, since they are from the same powder company data manual. I personally detest IMR 4227, so I have not wasted my time to load up any to compare side-by-side with 800-X. I will note, however, the current Hodgdon on-line data shows max loads for 4227 somewhat higher than DuPont's 1983 data, and the current data comparison between the 4227 and 800-X shows them pretty similar in .44 Mag.

 

[herkyguy]

Hodgdon does not provide current data for 800-X in .357, but older DuPont data did. Just glancing through the load data from 1983. it seems that max loads of 800-X with any bullet weight were just slightly faster than the same max load data for IMR 4227 (basically the same speeds at the same pressures for both powders at max loads). When I asked Hodgdon why they no longer included this load data, they simply said they thought there were better powders for .357.

.44 Mag is a different story - the same 1983 DuPont data shows 800-X max loads generally much faster than IMR 4227 with all bullets, especially jacketed. For example, with a Sierra 240g JHC, 14.2g 800-X us shown at 1,415 fps, but 22.0g 4227 only pushes that bullet at 1,275 fps.

These SHOULD be good comparisons, since they are from the same powder company data manual. I personally detest IMR 4227, so I have not wasted my time to load up any to compare side-by-side with 800-X. I will note, however, the current Hodgdon on-line data shows max loads for 4227 somewhat higher than DuPont's 1983 data, and the current data comparison between the 4227 and 800-X shows them pretty similar in .44 Mag.

Great info - Thanks....

 

[Slamfire]

I tested H110/W296, which is the same powder, 2400, Accurate Arms #9 and Blue Dot in my various 357 Magnums.

I did not care for Blue Dot due to severe leading with cast bullets. Blue Dot would work well with jacketed, but I shoot 50 to 100 lead bullets for every jacketed. AA#9 was satisfactory, H110 was the velocity champ. Alliant 2400 is the most flexible in that the loads can be cut, with H110 it is full power magnum loads only.

These powders provide similar velocities, even so that velocity is barely worth using as a discriminatory factor. If however that is important, use H110/W296, to me, I could not tell much of a difference between groups size or time between hammer fall and the bang on my gong target.

I prefer 2400 with cast bullets and jacketed primarily because of its flexibility, but I have lots of the other powders. I think the best criteria is price: Buy by price.

Smith & Wesson M27-2                                                                                                   

158 LSWC 13.5grs 2400 R-P cases CCI primers                                                             
9-Oct-05  T = 64 °F      
                                                                               
Ave Vel =1273                                                                                               
Std Dev =44.03                                                                                             
ES  =176.7                                                                                                     
High  =1372                                                                                                   
Low  =1195                                                                                                     
N =30

158 LSWC  13.5grs 2400 R-P cases Fed 100                                                            
4-Sep-05  T = 80 °F
  
Ave Vel =1245                                                                                    
Std Dev =22.49                                                                                   
ES  =97.26                                                                                           
High  =1285                                                                                         
Low  =1187                                                                                         
N =32


158 JHP (W/W) 13.5 grains 2400 R-P cases WSP                                               
5-Aug-06           T = 103 °F         
    
Ave Vel =1196                                                                                  
Std Dev =26.58                                                                                                           
ES  =87.17                                                                                         
High  =1244                                                                                       
Low  =1157                                                                                         
 N =10                                                                                                 
   
accurate not difficult to extract
                                                                                                                                                  
158 LRN   12.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 Mixed cases                                                    
5-Aug-06           T = 104 °F                                                                                         

Ave Vel =1278                                                                                  
Std Dev =34.98                                                                                                           
ES  =117.4                                                               
High  =1344                                                           
Low  =1226                                                                                         
 N =27                                                                                                 
 
 Accurate little or no leading                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     

158 LRN   12.5 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D  cases                                                       
5-Aug-06           T = 104 °F
                                                                                                             
Ave Vel =1348                                                                                  
Std Dev =34.16                                                                                                           
ES  =134.7                                                               
High  =1386                                                                                       
Low  =1251                                                                                         
 N =25                                                                                                 

 Very Accurate sticky extraction no leading                                                           

158 LRN   13.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D cases                                                        
5-Aug-06           T = 104 °F                                                                                         
Ave Vel =1360                                                                                   
Std Dev =33.19                                                                                                           
ES  =109.8                                                               
High  =1393                                                                                       
Low  =1284                                                                                         
N =26
                                                                                                    
 Very Accurate sticky extraction no leading                                                           

                                                                                                                                                   

158 JHP 13.0 grs AA#9 R-P cases WSP                                                                           
  9-Oct-05                               T = 64 °F                                                                                     

Ave Vel =1156                                                 
Std Dev =35.63                                                                                              
ES  =160.6                                                                                                     
High  =1230                                                                                                   
Low  =1069                                                                                                     
N =20                                                                                                               

Very accurate                                                                                                                           

158 JHP (W/W) 14.0 grs AA#9 R-P cases WSP                                                               
  9-Oct-05   T = 64 °F                                                                                     

Ave Vel =1208                                                 
Std Dev =27.65                                               
ES  =89                                                                                                           
High  =1255                                                                                                   
Low  =1166                                                                                                     
N =24                                                                                                               

Very accurate                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                 

158 LSWC Linotype 12.0 AA#9 Mixed cases CCI500                                        
14 Oct 2008 T =  80 °F  
                                                                                                   
Ave Vel =1217                                                                                   
Std Dev =52                                                                                        
ES =224.9                                                                                           
High =1346                                                                                         
Low =1121                                                                                          
N =29                                                                                                   

158 LSWC Linotype 15.5 W296  Zero Cases CCI500                                        
21 June 2008 T =  85 °F                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                      
Ave Vel =1282                                                                                  
Std Dev =35                                                                                       
ES =128.1                                                                                           
High =1325                                                                                        
Low =1197                                                                                         
N =12                                                                                                   
No leading, no extraction issues, heavier recoil than AA#9 load      

                                                        
158 LSWC Linotype 15.5 W296  3D Cases CCI500                                            
14 Oct 2008 T =  80 °F                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              
Ave Vel =1260                                                                                  
Std Dev =34                                                                                       
ES =160.5                                                                                           
High =1315                                                                                        
Low =1154                                                                                         
N=18
                                                                                                                                       

158 LRN   9.0 grains Blue Dot CCI500 Midway cases                                        
5-Aug-06           T = 102 °F
                   
Ave Vel =1203                                                                                   
Std Dev =29.22                                                                                                           
ES  =120.8                                                               
High  =1261                                                                                       
Low  =1141                                                                                         
 N =22                                                                                                 
        
Accurate ,difficult extraction, leading                                                                                         

158 LRN   10.0 grains Blue Dot CCI500 Midway cases            
5-Aug-06           T = 102 °F     
   
Ave Vel =1290                                                                                   
Std Dev =24.91                                                                                                           
ES  =88.15                                                               
High  =1324                                                                                       
Low  =1235                                                                                         
 N =20

v. Accurate, heavy leading

I shot some of my favorite loads in this Colt Trooper, all worked well. The first load is my standard 38 Special load, and I was pleased to see that it chronographed at 760 fps, which is exactly the speed it goes in my 4" M10 Smith and Wesson. If you want an accurate and low recoil load in a 357 pistol, try this load.

 Colt Trooper MKIII 6" Barrel                                                                              


158 gr LRN  3.5 grs Bullseye 38 SPL cases WSP                                         
30-Dec-15                    T = 55 ° F                                                                           
                                                                                                                                   
Ave Vel =768                                                                                  
StdDev =18                                                                                    
ES  =72.03                                                                                      
High  =798                                                                                     
Low  =725.9                                                                                   
N =18                                                                                               

158 gr LSWC  13.5 grs 2400  R-P cases WSP                                                             
30-Dec-15                    T = 55 ° F                                                                           
 
Ave Vel =1169                                                                               
Std Dev =33                                                                                    
ES  =176.3                                                                                      
High  =1276                                                                                   
Low  =1100                                                                                     
N =24                                                                                               

158 gr LSWC  Lino  15.5 grs W296  3D cases CCI 500                                 
30-Dec-15                    T = 55 ° F                                                                           
                                                                                                                        
Ave Vel =1156                                                                               
Std Dev =53                                                                                   
ES  =203.4                                                                                      
High  =1285                                                                                   
Low  =1081                                                                                     
N =24                                                                                               

158 gr JHP 13.5 grs 2400  R-P cases WSP                                                     
30-Dec-15                    T = 58 ° F                                                                           

Ave Vel =1108                                                                               
Std Dev =18                                                                                   
ES  =49.86                                                                                      
High  =1140                                                                                   
Low  =1090                                                                                     
N =6

 

[Jlr2267]

My experience with 300MP in 357 and 44mag was smaller groups right up to the published max loads. I also got about +80fps over max H110 loads in the same revolvers. Big boom and flash...slightly more recoil.

When I experimented with it in "Ruger Only" 45 Colt loads (where, at the time, there was no published data), I found that it is somewhat sensitive to case volume.

I think it's a good choice if it's more available in your area. Personally, I would not go out of my way to get it if H110 was on the shelf right in front of me.

 

[vaalpens]

I have done some testing this weekend with Longshot and PowerPistol loads using the ACME 158gr SWC coated bullets. These tests were done to up my last PowerPistol load, and also get a baseline for Longshot. Following are the test results:

The Longshot loads could be increased to generate more pressure. It seems the ES/SD numbers were not as good as the PowerPistol loads, but the groupings were slightly better.

357mag, Ruger SP101, 3"
COL: 1.620"
ACME, 158gr, SWCNLG, Longshot, 8.0gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1055
ES: 20
SD: 8.5
Force: 390
PF: 166
Velocities: 1049, 1065, 1062, 1054, 1045
Grouping @ 15yards: 2.36"
Comments: No problem ejecting spent cases.

357mag, Ruger SP101, 3"
COL: 1.620"
ACME, 158gr, SWCNLG, Longshot, 8.2gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1090
ES: 31
SD: 12.6
Force: 417
PF: 172
Velocities: 1101, 1071, 1087, 1089, 1102
Grouping @ 15yards: 2.03"
Comment: Slight stickiness when ejecting spent cases.

The following load was just a one round load just to see if the velocity will increase and to verify the spent case. No issues found, so I should be able to increase the loads even more.

357mag, Ruger SP101, 3"
COL: 1.620"
ACME, 158gr, SWCNLG, Longshot, 8.4gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1128
ES: 0
SD:
Force: 446
PF: 178
Velocities: 1128, , , ,
Grouping @ 15yards: None
Comment: Slight stickiness when ejecting spent cases.

357mag, Ruger SP101, 3"
COL: 1.620"
ACME, 158gr, SWCNLG, PowerPistol, 7.9gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1079
ES: 23
SD: 8.8
Force: 408
PF: 170
Velocities: 1083, 1064, 1081, 1080, 1087
Grouping @ 15yards: 2.64"
Comment: Slight stickiness when ejecting spent cases.

357mag, Ruger SP101, 3"
COL: 1.620"
ACME, 158gr, SWCNLG, PowerPistol, 8.1gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1098
ES: 9
SD: 3.8
Force: 423
PF: 173
Velocities: 1096, 1102, 1093, 1101, 1100
Grouping @ 15yards: 2.56"
Comment: Slight stickiness when ejecting spent cases.

 

[mrcabinet]

I've had great success with 4227 and Unique under 158 gr. JHP. But if you want to try something really fun, go old-school with Herco under a 125 gr. JHP.

 

[joneb]

I have had good results with 300 MP in 44 Mag. I will try it for my 2.75" barreled 357 Mag at some point but for now 2400 and Accurate #9 are working well. A friend of mine has had good results with Enforcer in his 4" 686 with jacketed bullets.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I've had great success with 4227 and Unique under 158 gr. JHP. But if you want to try something really fun, go old-school with Herco under a 125 gr. JHP.

I would much rather use W540/HS-6 over Herco in most applications.