.357 no better than a .38?

[The Burnside Ninja]

I was in a gun shop and I wanted to get a .357mag for myself. I was looking at S&W 686, Taurus 66, Ruger GP100s, and the Ruger SP101. The owner asked if I wanted a long barrel or a short barrel.

I figured if I got the 686, 66, or 100... I'd go with a 4-6 in. (for home)

or

If I got the SP101, I'd go with a 2-3 in. (for CC)

The owner suggested that I might as well get a .38 snubby since you lose the ballistic superiority of the .357 in a short barreled revolver. Is this true? Please explain.

 

[Brasso]

It's true that you lose more velocity the shorter the barrel. But this is a given in any caliber, .38spl or .357mag. In a snubby, a .38 just barely has the velocity to expand, if it does at all. The same gun in a .357mag will no problem. Regardless of how much velocity is lost in a snub barrel, the .357 will almost always have about a 300+ fps advantage, given it's loaded to it's potential.

 

[The Burnside Ninja]

Do you think that a 3 in. barrel is too short, then?

 

[ronto]

I think the shop owner is trying to push his 38 inventory. The 357 Magnum in any size barrel is far superior to the 38. If you have a choice, ALWAYS get the 357.
Speer makes a .357 Magnum 135gr. Gold Dot Hollow Point "Short Barrel" round that is designed for short barrel revolvers that further enhances the effectiveness of the shorter barrel.

 

[orionengnr]

Can't place it right now but there was a good post on just this subject recently.
I keep reading/hearing that if you have a 2" barrel then there's no difference between a 38 and a 357 (heard it in the Gun Shop yesterday ).

There was a good post with chrono outputs of different 38 and 357 ammo out of a 2" barrel.

Bottom line was pretty much what Brasso said.

Of course, I knew that already...I used to own an S&W 340PD (12 oz Scandium .357 Mag). Fire that baby once with a 38 standard pressure round, once with a 38+p, and once with a .357 Mag round and you will know the truth.

 

[Brian Williams]

Here are 3 of my favorite revolvers for HD/carry and no 3" is not to short.
357 is much more than 38 spec in any gun.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

If you buy the .357, you in effect have both guns. Get the .357 and shoot .38spl in it if you like.

 

[Old Fuff]

Unless you are interested in pocket or ankle holster carry, a 3" barrel will do anything the shorter length barrel will do, but do it better. If home defense is the mission a 4" length may be best.

While it is true that the .357 Magnum is superior to any .38 Special when it comes to power, the hotter round will produce more muzzle flash (bad in low-light situations) blast and recoil. If you have a small, lightweight snubby this may work against you. For that reason my lighter/smaller snubbies are .38 Special's. When it comes to a Magnum I draw the line at a S&W K-frame or Ruger SP-101 with a 3" inch or longer barrel. I am as interested in the control factor, and the ability to make rapid, but accurate repeat shots then I am raw power. In stopping an attack, bullet placement is far more important then bullet design.

Returning to home defense... If you live in an apartment, trailer court, or have very close neighbors, the .357 Magnum cartridge may not be a good choice. If a bullet missed the intended target and went through a wall or window you could be in serious trouble. In such situations I prefer a heavy, big diameter slug that's moving around 700 FPS or slower. Under the circumstances hollow-point expansion is not an issue.

In a personal weapon I do not fire .38 Specials in a .357 Magnum chamber, because the fouling left behind by the shorter .38 could make ejecting a longer .357 difficult if not impossible to eject during an emergency. Of course one can keep the chambers clean at all times - which I do - but I always keep Mr. Murphy's law in mind when it comes to self defense.

 

[MCgunner]

Okay, I don't have a 2" .357, but I can tell you most ballistics I've seen handload or factory, don't exceed 400 ft lbs, more like about 380. Now, that's a good 100 ft lbs MORE than the .38 +P, but, IMHO, the cost you pay for 100 ft lbs in recoil, flash/bang, and slow recovery time ain't worth it. That's for you to decide, of course. A 3" gun gives me, with my hot loads, a little over 500 ft lbs. In a gun the size of a 3" SP101 or especially a medium frame gun like my Taurus 3" M66, things are a lot more controllable. Oh, there's still the flash/bang, but recovery shot to shot is much quicker, recoil much more controllable. And, the added sight radius makes it quicker on target and more precise. To me, the advantages of the 3" gun are a no brainer. A 4" gun starts to become a little harder to carry IWB, but you do get 600+ ft lbs with the extra inch. Most of the stats on so called "stopping power", the reputation the .357 has attained as a stopper, come from 4" service size guns, not 2" snubbies.

At any rate, I have absolutely NO use for a 2" pocket sized .357. I'd rather carry my subcompact 9mm with it's 410 ft lbs and a lot more control, roughly the same sized bullet. I do, however, appreciate the 3" .357 Magnum and have one on right now, in fact. I think .357 starts at 3" guns and just gets better with barrel length. The ability to conceal the gun is the main reason to stick with the 3" gun. It's no harder to carry IWB than a 2" gun and much more practical to shoot. It won't fit in a pocket. I have my 9 and a .38 snub for that.

Just my $.02.

 

[BigO01]

Either the guy has too many 38 snubbys or he is an idiot who started in retail sales at Walmart selling womens Bras one day and pocket knives in sporting goods the next and he thinks he is qualified to sell guns after flipping through the pictures in a couple of issues of G&A and Shooting Times .

 

[9x19sig]

That's why you have to be careful what you listen to...

3" SP101 average velocities (factory loads)
Remington 357 Magnum 125 grain-------------------1339fps
Remington 357 Magnum 125 grain reduced power----1181fps
Corbon 357 Magnum 125 grain----------------------1397fps
Buffalo Bore 357 Magnum 125 grain-----------------1519fps
Buffalo Bore 357 Magnum 180 grain-----------------1319fps
Double Tap 357 Magnum 125 grain------------------1490fps
Double Tap 357 Magnum 158 grain------------------1326fps


As you can see, 357 magnum out of a 3" SP101 is nothing to frown at

 

[ronto]

To me the 13/16" differene between the 2 1/4" and 3 1/16" .357 SP101 makes no appreciable difference in stopping power but makes a big difference in how it conceals in my pocket when I decide to carry it that way.
The inovations in short barrel ammo make a 2" .357 snubbie a very viable SD alternative.

 

[brentwal]

Just get the .357 and be happy, the guys just trying to get rid of .38s.

 

[Gideon]

But that 3" SP101 sure looks great

Ballistics aside, If I know I'm not going to pocket carry then I love the 3" version of the 101 for the sight picture, asthetics, and a touch more control. I still think .357 is a good round but then a gain, I like a lot of different rounds I have an airweight and like the SP101 as a step up heavier belt gun that's still small compared to a full size auto.

And the Ballistics on .357 are impressive. Let's face it, every inch changes sight picture and ballistics somewhat because it's all physics, no matter what our opinions are. So we pick what feels good and give us the perfromance we're each happy with. Guns and calibers are definitely like shoes. What fits one guy won't work for another no matter what the style or quality.

God Bless
Gideon

 

[chipp]

I agree whatever works for the inventory is the best gun to sell. Owning a gun shop doesn't make you an expert like owning an auto parts store doesn't make you a mechanic.

 

[unspellable]

38 vs 357

In full house factory loads with the same bullet weight a 357 Mag from a snubby will produce a higher velocity than a 38 Spl from ANY length of barrel. That is to say a 357 from a 2" barrel will outrun a 38 Spl from an 8" barrel.

There are any number of valid reasons to choose one or the other, but velocity loss in a short barrel is not one of them.

 

[Desk Jockey]

There's a comparison of 357 snubnose to 38 Special snubnose here.

There's an opinion of 357 for self-defense here.

YMMV.

 

[RustyShackelford]

.357magnum v .38spl loads...

IMHO:

I'd say the .357magnum does lose some power in shorter barrels but is still stronger/faster than most .38spl loads. Most testing with the .357magnum is done with the 6" barrel. I don't think that is as common as a 4" but what do I know.

The .38spl +P or +P+ rounds have more punch but the .357magnum is still much better.

Rusty

 

[Ichiro]

The SP-101 is a pretty heavy carry gun for .38 special, but any +P is very easy to shoot. Having said that, it's smaller than a K-frame, lighter, and easier to conceal. I think it's a useful size for belt carry, or even pocket carry if you're a big guy with the right pants.

I load mine with .38 +P because I cannot control magnums very well with one hand. I do, however, change grips and shoot magnums with it at the range on occasion. The .357 mag version is the same size and the same price as the .38 and, therefore, I think buying a .38 SP-101 makes no sense at all.

If I really wanted to carry .357 ammo, I'd do it in a 3" GP-100 or a snubby L-frame.

 

[Cosmoline]

You lose some fps with the .357, and you lose some velocity with the .38. The magnum still has the longer legs, no matter what the length of the track.

 

[Confederate]

Having said all this, I still think most folks here would recommend a 4-6-inch barrel. For defense and trail (also camping), a 4-inch is ideal. For hunting, a 6-inch is fine, but too many .357s in 6-inch are too heavy, which is why I recommend that people look for a primo Ruger Security-Six in stainless.

My overwhelming favorite is a 4-inch and you can't hardly beat a Smith 686 for accuracy, reliability and durability.

The little Rugers are okay, but only 5-shot. And I don't much care for shooting them for recreation and it's too little for camping or trail use.

A snubbie .357 will produce a fireball with full throttle ammo that will probably burn a bad guy to death even if you miss him. It also will take away your night vision more than a longer barrel.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Charles S]

I love my 2 inch Ruger SP101. I use it for self defense, camping and a hunting backup.

I killed a little hog with it while bird hunting last year.

Great gun.

 

[Scooter72]

Charles S - Nice gun and nice hog! How far away was the hog when you blasted it?

 

[Charles S]

Thanks,

15 yards, 145 Winchester Silvertips. I got lucky one shot in the head with the 357 and he dropped.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Here are Speer Gold Dot numbers for their .38 Spl +P and .357 Mag from a 4" barrel:
.38 Spl +P 125 gr - 945 fps 248 ft/lbs
.357 Mag 125 gr - 1450 fps 584 ft/lbs
.357 Mag 158 gr - 1235 fps 535 ft/lbs

Here are Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel numbers for their .38 Spl +P and .357 Mag from a >2" barrel:
.38 Spl +P 135 gr - 860 fps 222 ft/lbs
.357 Mag 135 gr - 990 fps 294 ft/lbs

As you can see, the Short Barrel rounds do very well in a 1.875" barrel. Even though the SB rounds were specifically designed for a 2" barrel and smaller you can see the difference between the .38 +P and .357 Mag is nowhere near as wide as from the non-SB rounds out of a 4" barrel. You get well over double the energy from a .357 Mag over the .38 +P in a 4" barrel and only 32% more energy with the Mag round over the +P round in a short barrel. I'm guessing the normal .357 round isn't much better than a .38 +P round out of a snub nose if it's even better at all. I would like to have Speer's numbers for their normal .38/.357 rounds out of a short barrel just to see how much better the Short Barrel rounds perform.