.357 sig question

[walking arsenal]

whats everyones two cents worth on the .357 sig? Does anyone see it fading out or will it become as popular as the .40 S&W over time?

 

[10-Ring]

I really enjoy shooting the 357 sig much more than the 40 s&w. But like the 10mm, I the 357sig might end up a cult round

 

[mete]

Some LE agencies have adopted it but I think the 40 is more popular. Anyway there doesn't seem to be any difference 'on the street' between 357sig,40 and 45. Besides when you get tired of the 357sig just switch to a 40 barrel.

 

[WonderNine]

I think it will catch on more after the AWB dies. But it may never be as popular as 9X19 or (barf) .40.

 

[jc2]

I see it remaining a niche cartridge supported by a core of enthusiasts much like the 10mm and .41 Magnum. While it has enjoyed lmited some success in the LE market, it is really very, very small in terms of both total LE agencies and individual LEOs--the 10mm probably saw wider use as a LE round in its time.

The trouble with the 357 Sig is sooner or later most people realize: it really offers no improvement in terminal performance over the best 9x19s (including standard pressure, +P, and +P+); it is harder on both the shooter and the weapon than the 9x19; it has significantly more muzzle flip and muzzle blast than the 9x19; it reduces your ammunition capacity; it has a very limited ammunition available; it is relatively expensive; it is hard to find in many places; there is a limited number a handguns chambered (or at least readily available) for it.

If you want to shoot a .36 calibre round, the 9x19 just makes far better sense the the 357 Sig. There seems to be noticable trend of trying the 357 Sig to see what it's all about and the then going back to the 9x19. It's a good round, but it just doesn't do anything a number of other well established rounds do as well (or better)--not exactly a formula for success in the marketplace. It's jsut not a "better mousetrap."

 

[Geech]

Why don't you like the .40, WonderNine?

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I love mine. Have it in a SiG P229 for almost 2 years. The Texas Department of Public Safety (Highway Patrol) and Dallas Police carry it as do several other other LE organizations in this state, in either P226 or P229 format. All those officers I know and speak with who carry it like it as well. From what I've read, it works well when applied.

The bark will surprise you as much as the bite does, and it bites hard downrange.

If you want to see info from a highly biased cheerleader for 357SIG, have a look at this.

Pete's 357SIG pages

Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[krept]

on paper it looks like a good cartridge.

unfortunately, none of the places I shoot at rents them, even the place that rents a G20

 

[Rich357]

I have several pistols that either started as .357SIG or .40 S&W and I have barrels for both loads. The .357SIG seems to consistently have an edge in accuracy from the same pistol with the same brand of barrel.

The .357SIG is highly reliable. The little bottle neck feeds vrey well.

The .357SIG 125gr has virtually the same performance as the .357Mag 125gr from a 4" revolver but much more comfortable to shoot than the .357Mag out of a revolver. The semi-auto action makes the recoil less harsh.

I like the 9mm for inexpensive range use and it is nice that it is easily available, but if something happend and I had to grab a 9mm or .357SIG for SD, I would rather take a chance with .357SIG.

Rich

 

[Rich357]

krept-
"on paper it looks like a good cartridge. unfortunately, none of the places I shoot at rents them, even the place that rents a G20"
-----------

Do you want to shoot a 10mm or .357SIG? The G20 and G29 both shoot 10mm. The G31, G32, and G33 are .357SIGs. And, a number of other brands have pistols chambered for .357SIG.

Rich

 

[Rich357]

Will the .357SIG fade out or become as popular as the .40S&W? I don't think it will become as popular as the .40S&W because people seem to like a cartirdge that looks larger in their hand. People also tend to follow what the police use. Currently, the .40S&W is more popular with police departments.

I don't think the .357SIG will fade out because it is so easy to shoot the .357SIG in many of the pistols that started life as a .40S&W. They don't need to buy a new pistol or pay for a lot of gunsmithing to make the change.

Rich

 

[jnb01]

While Pete apparently does still like and shoot the 357 Sig, his carry weapon and competition guns are now chambered in 9mm. 2 Glock 34's and a Glock 26 respectively.

He was the calibers biggest "cheerleader", but for one reason or another (I won't speculate as I don't know), he went back to the 9mm.

Best, jnb01

 

[krept]

Rich,

I live west of Phoenix. The few places in my area that rent firearms for use on their range do not rent 357SIG. Only one rents a 10mm (G20).

So far I have not been able to try out either cartridge, but would like to.

btw... pretty sure the 10mm is here to stay. I think the 357 SIG is as well, simply because it only requires a barrel swap to shoot in weapons chambered for .40.

cheers

 

[litework]

I think it is definitely here to stay. I have one 357 Sig and like it as much as any other caliber I have (except maybe the 10mm). With a 22lb recoil spring, I have a hard time distinguishing recoil between it and a 9mm in a like gun. The state police in Virginia made the switch to 357 Sig; it is a viable alternative to the forty.

 

[LawDog]

Agencies that issue the .357 SIG:

Delaware State Police
Dallas, Texas PD
Federal Air Marshals
Federal Protective Services
Keizer Police Department, Oregon
La Porte County Indiana Sheriff's Department
Laurence County Sheriff's Office, Tennessee
Liberty Twp Police Dept, Ohio
Maine Aroostook County Sheriff's Office
Maine Game Wardens
Maricopa County [Phoenix] Arizona Sheriff's Office/MCSO
Montcalm County (Michigan) Sheriff's Office
New Jersey Division of Fish & Game
New Mexico State Police
Niles Police Dept, Ohio
Northwood Police Dept, ND
NC Highway Patrol
NC Wake County Sheriff's Department
NC Wildlife Enforcement Officers
Nueces County Sheriff Department, Texas
Oakland County Sheriff's Dept, Michigan
Orange Police Dept, CT
Oxford, Mississippi
Richmond, Virginia
Rocky Mount Police Dept, Rocky Mount, NC
Springfield, IL
Tennessee Highway Patrol
Union County Sheriff's Office, Marysville, Ohio
Texas, DPS
United States (GSA) - Office of Inspector General (OIG) Special Agents
United States Secret Service
Virginia State Police

LawDog

 

[caz223]

The 357SIG round is great, as are most of the guns chambered for it.
The problem is, that properly loaded 9mm is 90% as powerful, costs 50% less, and you can fit more of 'em in a magazine that is standard capacity.
The 10 round limit is what made this caliber competitive.
You can easily buy 9mm +p for the same price as 357SIG practice fodder.
Also, if you reload, 9mm can come closer to 357SIG performance than you think for the price of factory 9mm (Which isn't very much at all.)
I have several guns chambered in 9mm, .40, and 357SIG, and I shoot my nines the most.
Being cheaper to feed is prolly the biggest reason.

 

[jc2]

The problem is, that properly loaded 9mm is 90% as powerful, costs 50% less, and you can fit more of 'em in a magazine that is standard capacity.

The current generation 9x19 ammunition (in particular, the Ranger Ts--RA9T and RA9TA) are proving more like 100% as effective as the 357 Sig. The days of the 357 Sig offering any advantage in terminal effectiveness over the 9x19 are long past. The 357 Sig is truly "just another 9."

 

[caz223]

I believe that for the most part, too.
I just didn't want to incite an argument.
If you handload, you can load 357SIG hotter, you just can't shoot a person with it in defense of your life.
It works great on varmints.

 

[jc2]

I know about the arguments--some 357 Sig "true-believers" are so zealous!

 

[krept]

The reason I almost went with the 357 SIG is that the practice ammo is very much like the defensive ammo... i.e. closer to what you would have to use in real life.

Then a P7M8 found it's way into my hand...

 

[Sean Smith]

127 @ 1250 ft/sec (Winchester 127gr +P+ 9x19)

or

125 @ 1,400 ft/sec (Pro Load .357 Sig Gold Dot)
125 @ 1,425 ft/sec (Cor-Bon .357 Sig JHP)

I like 9x19, but those aren't comparable ballistics. Sometimes I think 9x19 fans doth protest too much, claiming to magically get equal performance with inferior ballistics. Sure, if attacking blocks of jello are the bane of your existence...

 

[jc2]

Nobody said the 357 Sig wasn't faster, you just don't gain anything in terminal effectiveness from that few fps difference in MV. The current generation 9x19 and 357 Sig deliver virtually identical penetration and expansion in the lab and on the street. They are also delivering virtually identical results "on the street" when used by LE. So, yes, you get a few fps more with the 357 Sig, but you don't gain anything in terms of terminal effectiveness for those few fps--both bullets are delivering identical performances despite the small difference in velocity. The bullets are optimized to perform within their velocity range, and there is no difference between optimum performance of a 9mm Luger bullet and 9mm Sig bullet (using top of the line current generation bullets), period.

 

[krept]

What is the purpose? For me it's self defense. If you can load a 115gr +P+ 9mm to completely expand/fragment or can load a 124gr +P that fully penetrates, what do you gain by the extra FPS?

more energy and more penetration, like the 10mm relative to the .40.

I guess my honest question is... is that extra energy practical for bad guys, especially given the variety of 9mm ammo available?

I just don't know. Apparently the guys protecting the President think so.


cheers

 

[jc2]

more energy and more penetration

You really don't gain more penetration--the penetration and expansion figures for the top of the line 9x19 (e.g., the Ranger T loads) is virtually identical to the 357 Sig? What does the slight gain energy give you--energy is not wounding mechanism (at least with handguns)? Maybe, it does give you slightly slower follow-ups (more muzzle flip and muzzle blast), slightly more wear and tear on the weapon and the shooter, but it does not give you any greater effectiveness because the bullets are both designed for optimum performance at their respective energy levels (and there is no difference in optimum performance between these two .36 calibre rounds).

 

[walking arsenal]

well, although i think were getting a little off subject (i believe the question was does anyone see .357 fading out) i think it's a great round, i might even go as far to say it's better than .40 i think it's lack of popularity is because of the fact that it came out around the same time as .40 and kinda got left in the limelight. it's a great round shoots flat, great BG stopper, fast, it's everything i want in a .357 mag with the capacity of an auto loader. so 9*19 is cheaper and .40 does just as good a job, i think we all know that in the handgun defense biz there is no right way just the way that works best for you. personally, i'd rather run standard pressure .357 and get the hi velocity than super charge that poor little 9mm round and lose some fingers or be accused by a lawyer that i was using super hot killer earth destroying mega bullets Note: i also keep all my carry handguns in the .38 caliber range so i can keep a small cleaning kit.