.357 snubby?

[kd7nqb]

I am close enough to getting my CHL that I am seriously considering the logistics of carrying. My everyday most of the time CCW piece will most likely be an XD in .40s&w but I want a small light gun for summer dress and other situations where I might want a "deep concealment piece".

My father has a .38spl Colt Detective Special so I have considered a gun either in the same model or very similar, a buddy of mine suggested the Keltec p3-at as it is .380 and thinner than the detective special.

I have 2 questions

1. Do any of you have experience with either the Kel-tec or a gun similar to the detective special

2. I was thinking that a small revolver in .357 might be a perfect option. Ideally with a <3in barrel and a 5 or 6 round capacity. Would the recoil even be safe in this type of gun?

 

[Waywatcher]

I had a Kel-Tec .32 for a while and it was fun and easy to shoot. I liked the trigger. Felt 'cheap' though.

A small revolver is a lot heavier. A lot. Even the aluminum ones. The heavy double action trigger leaves something to be desired. Muzzle flip was too much for me shooting 38 +P's. It was more unpleasant to me than shooting a .44 magnum from a full size gun.

I think a closer parallel to a small revolver would be a Kahr 9mm or similar, the Kel-tec is in a whole different league when it comes to concealability, size, and weight.

To be perfectly honest I am in much the same dilemma you are.

Decisions, decisions....

 

[Zeke Menuar]

No experience with Kel-Tec.

I'm waiting for Kel-Tecs single stack nine to show up here.

I do have experience with snubbies. I hate them!
I had a S&W M36. Too snappy to hit anything with. OK for very close point shooting. It wouldn't shoot to point of aim with the fixed sights no matter what ammo was used.

Later on I bought a Rossi M677 2" 357, a six shot steel frame snubbie. A real flamethrower in 357. Nasty muzzle blast and recoil. And like the S&W wouldn't shoot to point of aim. A little better in 38 Special but not much.

I gave up on snubbies for carry. The cylinder digs into my hip and they are too difficult to shoot accurately in a hurry. Being a lefty,trying to load a snubbie in a hurry is impossible.

That was a few years ago. At that time I went to a LW Commander and never looked back. As a matter of fact I sold every wheelgun I had and don't regret the decision.

For summer carry, I use a Bersa Thunder 380 with DPX ammo. Easier to hide, more comfortable to carry and much more accurate. YMMV.

ZM

 

[miko]

2. I was thinking that a small revolver in .357 might be a perfect option. Ideally with a <3in barrel and a 5 or 6 round capacity. Would the recoil even be safe in this type of gun?

If you carry IWB or OWB or shoulder rig, you might carry a steel J-frame S&W, 2 or 3" barrel, 5rds. I believe it weights 24 ounces empty and recoil with 357 is tolerable.

People carry 12-ounce 2" scandium J-frames like 340 loaded with 357. The recoil is very painfull but not damaging.

miko

 

[mainmech48]

IMO there are few, if any, handguns more difficult to learn to shoot well with than a snubby revolver - especially a DAO model. Should you decide to go that way, I'd strongly advise that you find a professionally-taught, revolver-specific course and train hard.

FWIW, there are now a good many subcompact semiauto pistols made that are at least as easily and discretely concealable as a snubby, of comparable power, and much easier to master. I would at least see if I couldn't arrange to try a few rounds out of a couple of these alongside of your DS or J-frame Smith before commiting yourself to an option.

I own a Keltech P-32, and it is virtually always somewhere on my person. While it has proven to be both reliable and very reasonably accurate, I consider it as an adjunct to, rather than a substitute for, a more powerful primary defensive weapon. It's a whole bunch better than nothing, but it won't be the first thing I reach for unless I have no other immediate option.

 

[mavracer]

either will work as many on this board use both, both are hard to master but can be done (I qualified for my ccl with a seecamp 32acp). just wichever you get practice a lot. as a side note IMHO a steel j frame or DS are in a different league than kel-tec for concealement twice the weight and way more power in 357. an Airweight with +p 38 would be a viable option.just look at 642 club.

 

[B. Adams]

I have no experience with Kel-Tec, for some reason I just can't seem to buy guns that cheap.

I carry a 4" XD-40 at the moment, which will be replaced by my 4" 1911 as soon as my holsters come in.

I also carry a Ruger SP101 with a spurless hammer and 2" barrel, and I love it. Recoil is very manageable, and it's a very comfortable gun to carry and shoot. It points very naturally. I might be concerned if it were one of those super lightweight guns though. I think they list an SP101 at 25oz, while the lightest S&W is 12oz. That weight makes a big difference.

 

[cosermann]

The conversation seems to be heading to the pocket gun category. The Kahr PM9 is ideal for this and in 9mm is ballistically superior to the .380 and .38 spl out of a snubby without having bothersome recoil. The CW9 is a lot cheaper, and is pushing it for pocket carry, but it can be done. I'd strongly recommend you look at the Kahrs.

Snubbies have a certain appeal and some usefulness as backup guns, but the short barrel, heavy trigger, comparitively heavy recoil, 5 shot capacity, and slower reloading time are limitations of the platform that have to be overcome with a significant amount of training/practice or another gun.

 

[Lou22]

I own 2 P3ATs and think they're great for pocket carry. They are reliable and have good enough accuracy for self-defense. Recoil doesn't bother me. I use them only where a very compact gun will fit, like shorts pockets or tight jeans.

A gun I sometimes carry is a EAA Windicator .357 snub with a 2-inch barrel. It holds 6 shots and weighs 28oz, so it's easy to shoot full-powered loads but a little big and heavy for most pockets. I bought mine new for $195 and am very happy with the accuracy and functioning.

Lou

 

[Ala Dan]

In A .357 Magnum Snubby

the 2.5" S&W model 66 is hard too beat~!

 

[Cosmoline]

2. I was thinking that a small revolver in .357 might be a perfect option. Ideally with a <3in barrel and a 5 or 6 round capacity. Would the recoil even be safe in this type of gun?

You are right on target there. In my experience, the ultimate .357 snub is the Ruger Speed Six, which is just under 3" and has slightly more heft than the SP-101. The SP is also a fine choice. I would not go much lighter than that, and would avoid the "J" frame magnums as they are hard to control.

For field use, I put on the Hogue monogrips. It's easy to control even in rapid fire, and built like an absolute tank.

 

[ARTiger]

A S&W 642 Airweight .38 Spl +P is in my opinion (and MANY others) the best pocket carry revolver made. For belt carry, a Ruger SP 101 is the ticket.

Check out the 642 Club thread in the revolver section. Lot's of info on carrying snubbies (not just 642's).

 

[1 LT MPC]

I sometimes carry a Kel-Tec P-11, but not often. I don't trust it that much. I also stay away from snub .357s--far away! My usual carry is a Colt Cobra stoked with Buffalo Bore 150 gr. hard cast wadcutters (just got them yesterday). Before that, I used 148 gr. match wads. The only small .357 I carry is my 3 inch Sp-101. Anything lighter hurts my carpal tunnel. If I want to carry anything heavier than 15 ounces, I usually stay with my Glock 23.
A snubby is not that hard to shoot for me. Mine goes to POA with the right ammo and the recoil is mild, thus making fast follow up shots. The right holster keeps the cylinder from digging into my hip ( one with a flat back). I use a Bucheimer B200 (I don't think they are made anymore but it resembles an El Paso Saddlery Tom Threepersons).

 

[Mooseman]

I also carry the sp101 in .357 IWB, comfortable to shoot and carry although I need to adjust the holster for driving. Too heavy for pocket carry IMO.

 

[tnieto2004]

I have had good luck with Kel-Tec's P11.. Nice little gun

 

[Richmond]

carry pieces

I consider my carry pieces according to level of concealability / what I am wearing.

The P3AT is the bare minimum, something you can carry even if you are just wearing shorts and flip flops; inexpensive, mine has been reliable

S&W J frame in .38 spl - my usual daily carry, I have Airweight and all steel versions. I find snubs relatively easy to shoot, easy to carry. I usually carry in a paddle belt holster under a suit rather than a pocket holster

Kimber Ultra CDP II - a 3" .45 - more gun, more to carry, usually in a Milt Sparks IWB

Just my taste, but I probably would not go with a J frame in .357. If I wanted the magnum, I would go with the suggestion of a 66 K fraame, maybe a SP101.

 

[coelacanth]

S&W Model 13 3" heavy barrel round butt frame

IWB appendix carry - DAO lockwork - no hammer spur. Winchester 140 gr Silvertips. This was the FBI carry weapon for many years and is a hard combination to beat. Was also used by the NYSP detectives. Recoil and muzzle blast are heavy but manageable. A pair of Crimson Trace laser grips brings it into the 21st century very nicely.

 

[Jkwas]

I carry a 357 snub either in my pocket or OWB. It weighs 24oz and I wonder how much difference an aluminum gun would make. Is there really a difference between a lb and a lb1/2? I was thinking of an airweight, but then I reasoned if you're going to go light, go all the way. Something like the Keltec P3AT. There is a big diff in weight with that option. The steel snub is not that bad for pocket carry. With a good holster and belt, and with the right pants/shorts to support it. Most of the pants I have that don't work with it, wouldn't work any better with an Airweight. We all know the real answer: Several guns and holster options that allow you to carry with many types of dress.

 

[tackleberi]

In my circumstance, my CCW options are "deep concealment" and "can't be caught with a gun". I use a S&W 640 for the former situations, and a Seecamp LWS380 for the latter.

Although the 640 is a .357, I prefer to carry either the Speer GDHP Short Barrel .38's; the .357 option is always there, but with only 5 shots, I prefer more control to ensure the best chance for shots-on-target. A Barami Hip-Grip really makes the J-Frame disappear under an untucked shirt.

I had a Colt Detective Special and selected the S&W based on the fact that the S&W was marginally thinner, was more sturdy under .38 +P shooting, and 'hung' better in the waistband with the Barami grips. I also preferred the cylinder release of the Smith, but these are all personal preferences that doesn't make one better than the other, although I do miss the 6th round of the Colt (especially when using speedstrips for reloads) and the extra bit of leverage the longer grip provided. Let's be honest, too: nothing compares to a Colt factory-blued finish.

I think a .357 snubby would be a solid performer given your criteria.

 

[Baba Louie]

Never owned a KelTec. Only .380 I own that comes close is a little S&W Sigma .380. I still can't believe I bought it... but it was and is... cheap, relatively speaking... and slim. I do not carry it nor would I unless it was the only handgun I owned. Even then I'd probably try to trade UP to a Bersa .380 or an NAA Guardian if I was limited to a .380. But with so many little 9mm's around nowadays, I'd start looking there first and modify my summertime dress accordingly.

Any snub nose .357/.38 should have GOOD grips and you should practice practice practice. I prefer all steel models ala S&W 60, 66, 10, DS, etc.

YMMV.

Just how "deep" are you planning for concealment? Pocket? IWB? Belly band? Thunderwear? (Rhetorical ? as it's none of my business) Make sure, wherever you end up carrying, deep concealment and all, that you practice practice practice your draw (standing & seated) and your situational awareness.

 

[ugaarguy]

My everyday most of the time CCW piece will most likely be an XD in .40s&w but I want a small light gun for summer dress and other situations where I might want a "deep concealment piece".

1. Do any of you have experience with either the Kel-tec or a gun similar to the detective special

Yes, and the P3AT is hands down the lightest and thinnest serious use pistol out there. Some of the mini 9mms are small, but nowhere near the width and weight of a P3AT. Mine has been 100% reliable and surprisingly accurate for such a small gun.

I also recently picked up a S&W M38 Airweight in 38 Special. It's a nice and very light piece, but again, the P3AT trounces it in width - key for deep concealment.

The S&W K frame (mid frames like the M10, 13, 66, etc.) suggestions don't fit the deep concealment role because of size and weight. The same applies to the Ruger SP101 and Speed/Service/Security Six.

Never owned a KelTec. Only .380 I own that comes close is a little S&W Sigma .380. I still can't believe I bought it... but it was and is... cheap, relatively speaking... and slim. I do not carry it nor would I unless it was the only handgun I owned. Even then I'd probably try to trade UP to a Bersa .380 or an NAA Guardian if I was limited to a .380. But with so many little 9mm's around nowadays, I'd start looking there first and modify my summertime dress accordingly.

I'm sorry your Sigma .380 was of poor quality, but please don't try to disparage the better made Kel-Tec you've never owned just because they're similar in both being polymer frame .380s. The Sigma .380 and Bersa .380 are both quite large in comparison to the P3AT. The NAA Guardian is significantly heavier than the P3AT, which is a factor for many with deep concealment. the mini 9mms are getting close, but they still aren't quite there.

 

[Baba Louie]

I'm sorry your Sigma .380 was of poor quality, but please don't try to disparage the better made Kel-Tec you've never owned just because they're similar in both being polymer frame .380s.

I'm not sure where I made any comments either way about Kel Tec's P3AT other than I do not own one. Certainly hope that my lack of ownership causes no one any sorrow.

The Sigma .380 and Bersa .380 are both quite large in comparison to the P3AT.

My little Sigma measures a hair over 5.69" in length, 4" tall and .875" wide so it does "tower" over the KelTec by quite a margin, I do admit (5.2", 3.5" & .77" respectively) making my Bersa and CZ 83 frikkin' huge by way of .380 comparison (and closer to Kel Tec's PF-9 in size comparison).

But the heart of the OP is (to my mind) comparing a small, slim .380 to a .357 snubby (the thread title) for once in a while CCW.

I say, when in doubt, buy both!

 

[denfoote]

My pocket gun is a Kahr MK9.
Basically it's a semi auto 9mm sevengun (6 in the mag, 1 in the chamber), although the spare mags are 7 rounders. I carry it in a DeSantis Nemisis pocket holster.






I also pocket carry a Taurus 605 .357mag snub revolver. With the proper grips, the recoil, while on the snappy side, is managable. I load it with 158gr Gold Dots mainly because the fixed sights are regulated to that bullet weight. Also, the GD performs surprisingly well out of a snub!!

http://www.brassfetcher.com/357mag158grSpeerGoldDot.html




I no longer carry the P3AT.
My main complaint is that it lacks a slide stop.
This makes mag changes in a critical situation a PIA. The extra step of having to rack the slide may just be the difference between living and dying in a critical situation, especally if you pull the trigger and hear that ominous "CLICK"!! I don't want to have to count my shots during a gunfight!!

 

[The Amigo]

If you hear the click?

If you do you insert a fresh round and go at it...I have a Kel Tec in P3at in .380 and its the most concealable hand gun in a decent .380 with 8 round and has been flawless. The shop near my house had a new Kel Tec PF9 and next day I showed up with the cashola $$ it was already gone:banghead: BTW nice Ruger cosmos.

 

[eng23ine]

I have one of each.

Prelock M36 snubby



1st. gen Keltec P3AT with custom melt job.


Recoil feels about the same to me using cor-bon dpx in the .380 and speer gold dots in the .38

Which do i prefer? It's a toss up. The keltec is lighter, smaller, and had more rounds while the 36 is more powerful and MUCH prettier.

I'd guess to say that i carry the keltec about 70% of the time and the S&W about 20% (10% goes to other guns)