.357 snubby?

[Boats]

I'm glad there exists at least a few flawless Kel-Tecs and Kahrs out there. I figured someone had to get one.

I know people who own both brands who've had to make far too many excuses for their puking on the range. One guy's experience with a PF-9 would be comical were it not so sad. One memorable impression from that gun was that it was "warped" or something so badly that it wouldn't RTB.

Another pocket auto I saw was a Kahr PM-9 that FTEd and FTF on 3 of the rounds from its first magazine. Bad first impressions are lasting ones.

Snubbies are difficult to master, but they fire when called upon.

There are just too many variables facing a pocket auto for me to trust them. Ammo sensitivity, proper grip, must eject flawlessly, etc., that I'll put up with some extra width and a poor reload time for the rock solid reliability of the snubbie. There is just way more development time behind the wheelgun in this format.

I'd love to be able to trust something like a Kel-Tec PF-9, but from what I have seen, they have a lot of teething to do.

My M-38 and 638 are fully developed firearms.

 

[Tacoma]

I'd vote a J frame snubbie with Hip grips. No need for a holster and it diapears under shorts and a T shirt. Total weight will be between 12 and 24 oz depending on model. .38+P has better ME than most 380 rounds.
Tryed a Kel-Tec. It was novel but almost to small and light to control. Of course if you plan o pocket carry, the keltec has advantages there.

FWIW, I've owned dozens of handguns on/off and a snubbie is still my first pick to head out with.

 

[SBD]

As has been said a million times, I think it's a matter of preference and what you can shoot with. I've made several trips to the S&W range in Springfield over the past two months to work with a Model 640 that I'm thinking about purchasing as my first firearm. It's got a 2 1/8" barrel, a fully-concealed hammer, and weighs about 23 ounces. I have the target I hit with .357 Magnum rounds and I was able to create two pretty good groupings (one of which resides on the bullseye) at about seven yards. If it's true that "most" defensive shooting incidents happen within 10 feet (or whatever), then just keep in mind that you don't have to be accurate from too long of a distance. To me, .357 from a snub-nosed isn't that difficult, and I actually enjoy shooting it. Try it out.

 

[Alan Fud]

Taurus 605 with a spurless hammer loaded with Speer GDHP Short Barrel .38's -- even though it's a .357, I find that I'm much more accurate with .38 +P's.

 

[LightningJoe]

P-3 vs snub-nose for pocket carry:


P-3 Pro: Tiny, light, quick to reload, can get decent laser sight
P-3 Con: 2nd generation sights rudimentary, .32 Auto weak, .380 not much better


Snub Pro: caliber acceptable, reliable, can get good laser sight (some makes)
Snub Con: bigger, heavier, low capacity, slow reload, rudimentary sights


But the biggest con for the Kel-Tec is also its biggest pro: Its tiny size. 99% of a handgun's effectiveness is psychological and that little gun in your hand doesn't look like business whereas a snub-nose does.

 

[Ala Dan]

I have experience with both, the KEL-TEC P3AT .380 auto and the 2nd series
(1947-1972) Colt D-frame Detective Specials. I own one P3AT, and three of
the .38 Special Colt's~!

For light summer dress (shorts, tee shirt) the small KEL-TEC is very hard too
beat; as it lies very flat, and looks kind'a like a wallet when carried in your
back pocket. There are several good, quality pocket holsters available for
you to choose from.

OTOH, the Colt will be larger with more weight; but offers better firepower
with the .38 Special cartridge having much better ballistics provided the
right load is selected. In my case, I don't carry the little Colt's as I find
them far too valuable [and hard too find]; opting instead for the five shot
.38 Special Smith & Wesson model 642, when a small "wheel gun" is needed.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I looked far and wide for a Colt Magnum Carry as 'the perfect' carry gun, with Remington 125 gr .357 mag ammo it's a handful... but wow is it fun to shoot.

 

[ravencon]

Lots of very diverse opinions in this thread. Here's mine.

I wont trust my life to a pocket auto. Snubbies are hard to master but practice makes perfect (or at least pretty good). Shoot .38 standard velocity ammo if +P or .357 magnum doesn't work for you.

Snubbies conceal well and I've never had one not go "bang". I can't say the same about pocket autos.

 

[geekWithA.45]

.357 snubs pretty much max out the sizeower ratio.

The recoil is not pleasant by any means, but it's deal withable.

The snub is most definately not a n00b weapon. They're suprisingly difficult to master.

 

[jad0110]

All this talk of snubbies being hard to shoot...

Granted, my snubbie 642 is not as easy to shoot as my full sized 686 or a 1911. Though not easy, it is not overly difficult, for me at least. On my range outing ths weekend, my 642 narrowly outperformed my Springfield XD 4" and downright embarrassed a Glock 23 I fired a few months ago.

I guess I'm a wierdo or something. Just goes to show that like recoil, picking a good firearm is highly subjective; what works for one person may not work for another.

Try them out and see what you think. Most people find the small autos easier to shoot, but my gut tells me that's because a lot of people throw their hands up in the air and give up early on the long DA pull of a snubbie. Figures, given that so many people I see shooting DA wheelies cock the hammer with each shot. Again, neither is easy to shoot, but I at least perform adequately with a snub. I can't hit anything with a pocket auto, so again, try them out and see what works best.

One other factor for me is the proven reliability of the snub. I know lots of people have reliable pocket autos, which is great of course, but I just can't bring myself to trust them. I guess they just aren't my thing anyway. A final thing to consider is that the grip selection for a snubbie is much more diverse, though I like the stock grips on my 642 just fine.

 

[Jkwas]

The snub is most definately not a n00b weapon. They're suprisingly difficult to master.

I beg to differ. It depends on the snub. I took a guy to the range last month that never fired a revolver in his life. Took the Taurus 605 and the S&W Model 10. He picked up the 605 and fired COM like he had been shooting it all his life! Preferred it to the M10! Go figure. I've always found the snub to point naturally for me. Your results may vary.

 

[10-Ring]

I'd go w/ a j-frame -- probably a S&W mod 640

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have both a S&W M638 and a Kel-Tec P-32 (.32 Auto) I carry the J frame most of the time but on those rare occasions where you need something really small, I carry the P-32.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Those Colt Detective Specials, like the one of your father's, are great handguns. They are more than the sum of their parts. They're still small handguns, but they are large enough to get good grips on them. If you're worried about weight, Colt made them in aluminum frames, too - The Cobra and Agent.

I have a Kel-tec. I have a Kel-tec. I have 2 Colt snubbies, and 2 S&W snubbies. Those Colt revolvers treat me just fine. 357 Magnum is a hard hitting gun in that size revolver. I'm content with .38 Specials.

 

[Logos]

Snubbies are not a good choice in any circumstances.....for all the reasons mentioned above.

Kahr and Glock both have superb sub-compacts that carry eight or ten rounds and with the Glock you can carry a spare mag that holds 15 (it extends, of course, but that's not a problem with the spare).

I favor the Glock because I know it's stone-cold reliable.

I can carry it right front pocket with a pocket holster and loose pants (or shorts, in summer).

 

[slow944]

When I can't carry my PT140 or PT145 I carry my KT P3AT in a pocket holster. I picked up a 2nd gen. version and it's very reliable and accurate for a small gun.

 

[W Turner]

I've owned/shot a few different pocket guns over the past few years, but I keep coming back to the alloy framed j frame for pocket carry. Mine is currently loaded with either 135gr. Speer Gold Dots when in public or my 158gr. LSWC handloads when I am on my property.

The reason I carry the LSWC's on my property is due to our neighbors having 3 pit bulls chained up on their property. I know that at least one of them has a history of animal aggression including killing a cat. I want whatever I shoot at them to penetrate, expansion is secondary at .38spl. velocities on an animal like that.

Other pocket guns I have owned/carried....

Kel Tec P11- Great capacity for such a small gun, some struggle with the long reset on the trigger, can be pocketed, but you need larger pockets

Kel Tec P32/P3AT- Basically the same gun in two different cartridges. Beware of rimlock on the .32 model, it happened to my wife. Ultra lightweight, ultra concealable, great deep concealment guns

Steel-framed j-frame - the extra weight dampens recoil, but you pay a penalty in your pocket.

With a good pocket holster, you can carry an all steel j frame in your pocket, but you will feel the difference. I wouldn't care to shoot a .357 jframe made out of anything but steel.

A S&W model 60 or 649 would be good candidates for you.

W

 

[harrygunner]

Carry six rounds in speed loaders

General suggestion: Some snub guns hold five, but, you may
need that extra round someday.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

Unless you opt for pocket carry you're gonna have to dress around your gun. The heavier and bigger the gun is the more difficult it is to conceal. I think you will be very happy with a j frame airweight. My personal choice is a 442 or a 642. I have 2 k/t .32's which I carry in each pocket when I can't carry my .38.