357 with Xtreme bullets

[2bfree]

I am about to load some 357 and 38spl using 158 grn FP Xtreme plated bullets WITH a Cannelure. Do I still roll crimp or just use a taper crimp seeing as these are plated. They will be light loads as I am out of H110 and will be loading with HP38 seeing as though I have 10 pounds of it. Thanks

 

[longdayjake]

Try whatever crimp you would normally use. Then pull a bullet or two and see if it broke the plating.

 

[Walkalong]

I use up to a "heavy" taper crimp. Taper crimps work well. Start with less crimp and work up. Only use enough to hold the bullet from creeping forward under recoil.

Here is a "heavy" taper crimp on a Powerbond. I do not have a pic of an X-Treme in .357, although I do have some loaded.

 

[2bfree]

Thanks Walkalong. In the far away past I used SJFP with the roll crimp but just could not seeing using it on plated.

 

[Walkalong]

They can take a light roll crimp, but if that won't hold the bullet, you need to go to a heavier taper crimp. A light taper crimp does not add any holding power. It has to move the case mouth in some.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

It looks like there's nothing left to do here, carry on...

 

[ddc]

I'm likely to dealing with the same issue although with 41 mag instead of 357.

Warning: New reloader here.

I've got a Lee CT and the carbide four die set.

So my questions are:
1. My Lee dies are set up to roll crimp are they not?
2. If true is there anyway to get a taper crimp out of them or would I have to pick up another die?

Thanks!
Don.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm likely to dealing with the same issue although with 41 mag instead of 357.

Warning: New reloader here.

I've got a Lee CT and the carbide four die set.

So my questions are:
1. My Lee dies are set up to roll crimp are they not?
2. If true is there anyway to get a taper crimp out of them or would I have to pick up another die?

Thanks!
Don.

I'm 99%+ sure Lee dies will not do both crimps at once. I seem to remember reading somewhere one company does combine the crimps somewhat but I don't think it's Lee.

I use Lee Carbide dies for my .38 Special ammo and when I use a plated bullet or load CCI shotshells I use a .38 Special Taper Crimp die I bought separately for that use. (and I can't remember which company)

Like I said, I think I have that right...

 

[mulyhuntr]

I use a light roll crimp with the bullets mentioned in 357. Just enough to remove the flare. Never had one jump crimp using 14gr 2400.

 

[Walkalong]

14.0 Grs of 2400 with the X-Treme 158 Gr SWC is a good load. I taper crimp that on as well.

would I have to pick up another die?

The Lee taper crimp die for around $11. I have a reduced .41 Mag load using an X-Treme 210 gr TrFP using a taper crimp. Fun stuff.

 

[gibekim]

Extreme's website recommends a TAPER CRIMP even though their bullets have a cannelure groove.

 

[Walkalong]

Well, they have marks on them anyway. It certainly isn't a groove. A good reference point.

 

[Buck13]

I've got a Lee CT and the carbide four die set.

So my questions are:
1. My Lee dies are set up to roll crimp are they not?

I have the same question. I have the Lee 4-die carbide set in .38. On their website for their Taper Crimp Die, Lee says "1986 or newer Lee Dies as the crimp angle is already a modified taper crimp." I take this to refer to the standard bullet seating die in the 3- or 4-die sets. I've been using this die with the Xtreme 158 SWC recently, and the crimping force goes up quickly with small turns of the die (I adjust it about 1/8 or 1/10 of a turn at a time). It's hard to see much difference by eye between what I would call a medium-light crimp force and medium-firm. I should pull a couple of bullets and see what has happened to the section under the case mouth.

For the Carbide Factory Crimp Die they say "Revolver dies roll crimp with no limit as to the amount." Unfortunately, I wouldn't want to use this die on cast lead bullets, which in my limited experience have the biggest crimp grooves to use this crimp style, since I don't want to risk sizing down the bullet with the carbide ring at the mouth of the die. Again, I guess I should test that. But this seems to mean that there is no Lee die that will give a heavy roll crimp without possibly re-sizing your bullet.

Anyone want to write a dissertation on the crimp profiles and effectiveness of all the various manufacturers' dies?

 

[Walkalong]

I do not have the newer Lee die that is said to start as a taper and then a roll crimp if adjusted further down, so I cannot say for it. I do have the Redding Profile Crimp Die and it does have a (Short) taper crimp leading into a roll crimp. I still get a separate taper crimp only die and use it for taper crimps, as it is more versatile than trying to use the roll crimp die to taper crimp.

 

[ddc]

Walkalong,

You said "I still get a separate taper crimp only die and use it for taper crimps, as it is more versatile than trying to use the roll crimp die to taper crimp."

So it sounds like it is possible to get a roll crimp die to taper crimp?

I was wondering if what was happening is that as we back off of a roll crimp it gets to the point where there is not much difference between a mild roll crimp and a taper crimp? Or are they two completely different animals?

Thanks,
Don.

 

[Walkalong]

So it sounds like it is possible to get a roll crimp die to taper crimp?

I guess if you trim all your cases and get things juuuust right with a Redding Profile Crimp Die (And the Lee if it has the leading taper) you could, as the taper leading into the roll crimp is quite short. It won't work with a standard roll crimp die, and it is not worth the trouble as long as Lee sells an $11 taper crimp die.

A taper crimp and a roll crimp are indeed two different animals.

Taper: The crimp ledge in the die is long and shallow.

Roll: The crimp ledge in the die is short and at a sharp angle, around 45 degrees for the traditional crimp die.

 

[ddc]

Very good, thanks.

 

[2bfree]

Well I guess I will be going with the light roll crimp. I sent the question of dies doing both roll and taper to Lee, my answer below.

11-06-13

Scott,
Revolver cartridge dies have a roll crimp. Backing the die out will produce less of a roll.

Tech Service

Lee Precision, Inc.
4275 Highway U
Hartford, WI 53027
phone: 262-673-3075

Ticket Details
Ticket ID: NSW-346-92272
Department: CustomerService
Type: Issue
Status: Closed
Priority: Normal

PS: I do know my 9m Lee dies do both where my Dillon 9m only does the taper

 

[Walkalong]

Revolver cartridge dies have a roll crimp. Backing the die out will produce less of a roll.

Which is not a taper crimp.

I do know my 9m Lee dies do both where my Dillon 9m only does the taper

You sure your 9MM seater has a roll crimp?

 

[2bfree]

Yes the 9m will do a roll crimp. If you tighten the die down a bit after the taper crimp it will start doing a roll crimp. I checked with Lee when I first got them and they are supposed to be that way. I only noticed it first time setting them up and I had a little to much taper crimp and noticed it had started rolling the crimp.

 

[IWAC]

We all loaded for decades without needing a Factory Crimp die...the manufacturers design their dies to turn out proper and well-fitting ammunition, without the use of additional equipment. I had similar questions regarding bullet crimping with 357 magnum brass.

The RCBS tech told me that a factory crimp is essentially an overcrimp, and a proper crimp looks like what we have been used to seeing all these years recommended as a "light" crimp. Hmmm...

I was also concerned about cutting the plating on my Berry's bullets. I chamfer the inside of my cases just enough to take the sharp edge off, and use the Dillon taper/roll crimp die, to taper crimp to avoid any danger of cutting the plating. Itr moves the case mouth just enough to remove any hint of flaring, and then just a bit more. When I pulled a bullet, it had a shallow indent at the case mouth, but no cut in the plating. I can live with that.

For cannelured jacketed and cast bullets and the Golden Saber, I will continue to use the "overcrimp", maybe slightly less than before, and trim my cases more often. The die makers settings, with a little "fine tuning" won't buckle the cases and should result in perfectly-fitting ammunition. If rounds are hard to chamber in my revolver, I will just back the crimp off a tad, till it no longer causes problems.

 

[2bfree]

Another ?

My reloading manual tells me 6.2 to 6.9 of HP-38 (all I have ) with an OAL of 1.580 but if I seat and crimp (taper) to the Cannelure I get 1.560. Is it that important to seat to the Cannelure seeing as though I am using a taper crimp or best to go to the 1.560 and reduce the powder by a couple .0 to start. Thanks