Tested: Expansion of Xtreme plated Hollow Point Bullets (158g 357)

[Macchina]

I recently got a 1000 of the plated Extreme bullets. I loaded some up using the data I use for Hornady XTP bullets. I noticed something very strange here: velocity was about 100 FPS less than the jacketed Hornady 158g XTP in my 4.2" SP101 and SIGNIFICANTLY slower in my Ruger LCR 357, about 150 FPS! I don't really know what's going on here with the velocity, but it was very consistent across about 10 shots each. I left my chronograph notebook at the cabin, so I don't have the exact numbers in front of me. I will update this post when I get back from the cabin next week. I ADDED CORRECT CHRONO READINGS

This is my load and chrono data (velocities for the Xtreme bullets are in bold):

158g Hornady XTP
158g Xtreme 357 HP
17g H110 (Max by Lyman, work your way up)
Magnum Primer
Heavy roll crimp

Ruger SP101 4.2": 1270 FPS / 1156 FPS
Ruger LCR 1.875": 1124 FPS / 970 FPS

-----

158g Hornady XTP
158g Xtreme 357 HP
8.4g Power Pistol
Standard Primer
Light Taper Crimp

Ruger SP101 4.2": 1198 FPS / 1070 FPS (These do about 1500 FPS in a rifle and shoot/load very nice)
Ruger LCR 1.875": 1100 FPS / 934 FPS

Now for the expansion tests:
I shot these into water only. I did it old school with a big pail. I used a contractors trash can and filled it with 30" of water. I only used the H110 loads from above. The XTP bullets were going 1270 FPS and the Xtreme Hollowpoints were going 1120 FPS. The XTP's performed beautifully, the Xtremes did something weird.

Average Retained Weight:
Xtreme HP: 135g (118g, 131g, 156g)
Hornady XTP: 137g (132g, 138g, 141g)

Average Expansion:
Xtreme HP: .41" (.41" + .38" + .44")
Hornady XTP: .53" (.54" + .51" + .55")

Conclusion: just like what Xtreme says, these bullets are not expanding bullets. They either lose their noses or fail to expand at all. I really have to get to the bottom of their velocity loss. I actually really like the Power Pistol Load I posed above for a mid-level plinker. Leading was very minimal, even with heavy crimps and very top-end magnum loads, this was a big bonus in my book.

I never tested the XTPs before and many people claim they tend to not open up. In my opinion, these bullets performed PERFECTLY and I will never shoot another jacketed bullet from my revolvers! They are clean, accurate, and now I now they expand really well.

I will buy more of these Xtreme bullets as soon as mine are gone. They are clean and accurate and I was hoping for expansion but definitely not expecting it. I would love to hear some velocity numbers from others that have loaded these vs. jacketed bullets.

XTP on the left, Xtreme HP with Roll Crimp in the middle, Xtreme HP with taper crimp on the right:



XTP on left, Xtreme HP on right:



I almost never have powder marks from the loads I shoot! I have a feeling this has something to do with the low velocities I was seeing. Any input? These are 158g Xtreme HPs with 17g H110, mag primers, and heavy roll crimp:



They are very accurate (at 10 yards) from my rifle:


And anyone can shoot revolvers better than me, but this is a good group for me (4.2" SP101):


10 shots over the power pistol:


Picture of the family:


After shooting revolvers all day, I tried out my new LCP...

You don't hold revolvers and autos the same way . I never do this while standing and shooting an auto, but since 99% of the shooting I do on a sandbag is with a revolver I hold autos like a revolver when shooting off a bag... I've done this before with a TCP... I knew it was going to happen too: notice the buffed edges on the rear of my LCP slide

 

[Buck13]

I thought your "heavy roll crimp" was a no-no with a plated bullet? Those shoot accurately at longer ranges?

It would be interesting to see if the taper-crimped loads shot into your bucket still had the plating below the cannelure.

So, how wet did you get?

 

[Salmoneye]

Way over-crimped...

 

[Macchina]

I've heard to go light on plated bullets, however I know H110 needs a heavy crimp. I thought the risk was leading so that is what I looked for. Are there other risks to a too heavy crimp on plated bullets? Can it decrease velocity?

Are plated bullets and H110 a non-starter because of the crimp?

 

[Macchina]

I thought your "heavy roll crimp" was a no-no with a plated bullet? Those shoot accurately at longer ranges?

It would be interesting to see if the taper-crimped loads shot into your bucket still had the plating below the cannelure.

So, how wet did you get?

Its hard to see, but ALL the plating is still there: lead streaked yes, but all the plating is still in place.

I got pretty wet, but it wasn't bad because it warmed up past 30 that day.

I am thinking the (tapper crimped) Power Pistol loads are the way to go here. They shot so nicely. However, they did display the same velocity drops with the plated bullets as the H110 loads did.

 

[horseman1]

As far as the velocity difference and the soot, I wouldn't be at all surprised about that. That's why we work up loads when a component is changed. I wonder if the XTP is bullet is a little longer (seated deeper) and possibly creates a bit more pressure than the plated bullet.

 

[Macchina]

As far as the velocity difference and the soot, I wouldn't be at all surprised about that. That's why we work up loads when a component is changed. I wonder if the XTP is bullet is a little longer (seated deeper) and possibly creates a bit more pressure than the plated bullet.

I checked this. The XTP and Xtreme HP have the crimp groove in the exact same spot.

 

[Buck13]

Is the lead on the plating from previously fired cast bullets, or is the plating broken at the crimp? Not that it matters, if they hold together and group well. The 10 yard performance sure seems fine.

The Lee manual has separate sections for XTPs, supposedly because they have heavier jackets. At least for .357, there aren't many examples in their table of the same powder being used for generic jacketed data and XTP data, so it's not clear if XTPs really raise pressure. I forgot to look at my Lyman 49th this morning to see if their data had any bearing on this question.

Anyway, thanks for reporting this test. Looks like Power Pistol is a good choice.

 

[Potatohead]

Thx for the thread

 

[horseman1]

Yes, interesting results. Thanks

 

[Macchina]

The reason I worked up to XTP data is because these bullets are exactly the same dimensionally below the cannelure.

I will look closely at the recovered bullets to see if the crimp broke though (I think it did). And yes: there is lead streaks on the outside of The copper plating. I believe this is from these plated bullets. Note: my gun never leaded to the point of where I could see leading. I have had some serious leading with hardcast bullets so the amount these may have leaded is a non issue for me.

 

[horseman1]

deleted.

 

[RussellC]

My guess is this: The hornady XTP is a little long for a hollow point, much longer than the same weight Xteme HP. Set to the same OAL, you have less space left in the case than with the shorter X-treme bullet. this would mean less pressure, less velocity? (for the X-treme)

Russellc

 

[blarby]

Thats quite a crimp you got there.

Your experience mirrors mine with the plated HP's.

Thats why berrys specifically makes ones that deploy now. Previous versions were simply for aerodynamic purposes- and because HOLLOWPOINTS sold and FLAT POINT didn't- even though for the most part they still shoot the same, lol.

The only way I could get any sort of real expansion out of them was to fill the pocket with silicone- and even then it was an iffy proposition. The hole isn't designed to deploy as an HP, even though it looks like it- and the plating is so thin that at the speeds necessary to make them deploy, the energy shreds the mushroom of lead right off, as its not backed by anything significant.

Speer has a really good process for making plated bullets that deploy. Its called Gold Dot, and the similarities between speers great bullets, and that of the new bullets from berrys is so close, it makes me wonder if Berrys sent the ninjas over to speer

 

[REB]

I think the difference in velocity is because the XTP is a jacked bullet and the others are plated. Plated bullets are not the same as jacked and you should use cast lead data for them. Typically the load for a lead bullet will be higher than jacked in the same weight.

 

[Macchina]

But in my experience lead bullets are always significantly faster than jacketed in the same weight with the same load. This is a common finding. This test showed the opposite.

I UPDATED THE CHRONO RESULTS.

 

[kcofohio]

As far as plated bullets go, I have only loaded Berry's. The first trials of these I found that I over crimped them(9MM) and found after pulling the bullets, I had bullets that were down to .352". Afterward I found the advise of using a light crimp on plated bullets.
Could that be why you had lower velocity because the bullet might have been shaped to a smaller diameter?

 

[Macchina]

That's a really good idea. I'll do some measuring.

 

[REB]

But in my experience lead bullets are always significantly faster than jacketed in the same weight with the same load. This is a common finding. This test showed the opposite.

I UPDATED THE CHRONO RESULTS.

That has not been my experience especially with magnum powders. Lead bullets require more powder to achieve the same velocity. YMMV