Coal Dragger
member
The .375H&H is so much more versatile (not to mention powerful) that I don't even see why this is a discussion.
375 h&h vs 444 marlin
- Thread starter Atracksler
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Sadly, I can't disagree. The Marlin .444 is a great woods gun and up to 200 yard hard hitting rifle, but it simply is not the type of rifle the .375 is as a great Africa big game gun, rifle of choice for many Alaskan guides and flexible from deer to elephants. It is not really a fair discussion as you state.
On the other hand, I love my Marlin .444 and it is my favorite rifle of all. The Marlin .444 is a great gun within it's own little niche but it isn't a .375 H&H magnum at all.
Atracksler
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Sounds like in the world of "practical" where I have to live, instead of the world of "unlimited resources", there is significant overlap between the application of the 308 and the 444.
The 375's practical application seems to cover new and different ground...
Seems like there isn't anywhere, or any way to hunt the 444 that I couldn't use the 308, not the case with the 375...
The 375's practical application seems to cover new and different ground...
Seems like there isn't anywhere, or any way to hunt the 444 that I couldn't use the 308, not the case with the 375...
Atracksler
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I hear ya... I looked at them both again and am torn....
My 308 is a BLR, my carbine is a winchester 94 in 357... I feel like the 444 fits in with the rest of the safe, but the 375 would be a unique niche....
Also ammo for he 375 was kind of frightfully expensive....
My 308 is a BLR, my carbine is a winchester 94 in 357... I feel like the 444 fits in with the rest of the safe, but the 375 would be a unique niche....
Also ammo for he 375 was kind of frightfully expensive....
Kyle M.
Member
Yes it is frightfully expensive thats why I reload, but I understand that not everyone does nor does everyone need or want too.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I wouldn't say that, not even close. The .308 has more effective range but the .444 truly is a bigger hammer. The .308 is really at its limit with elk and moose, while the .444 is really only getting started.
StretchNM
Member
I would get the Marlin 444. Since the concensus is it will do the job with authority, then you will enjoy shooting it more.
I own a #1 in 25-06. It is a beautiful and interesting rifle, and a pleasure to shoot. I would not want to buy a rifle like that in a caliber that I just wouldn;t shoot very much. The 375H&H has substantial recoil and, as was said earlier, after a few rounds sighting it in, most guys would be done for the day. The Ruger #1 is one of those rifles you want to be able to enjoy. I would get one in a "lesser" caliber, and get the Marlin for moose.
I own a #1 in 25-06. It is a beautiful and interesting rifle, and a pleasure to shoot. I would not want to buy a rifle like that in a caliber that I just wouldn;t shoot very much. The 375H&H has substantial recoil and, as was said earlier, after a few rounds sighting it in, most guys would be done for the day. The Ruger #1 is one of those rifles you want to be able to enjoy. I would get one in a "lesser" caliber, and get the Marlin for moose.
First, thanks to the OP who, unlike all too many people asking "which gun" questions, was kind enough to mention what he plans to do with the gun.
Which is moose in Maine and having fun at the range.
A 375 may be more versatile and better in Africa, but for the OP's stated requirements a 444 is a better choice and it would be a LOT more fun to shoot at the range, unless your idea of fun includes getting beaten up by recoil and spending a fortune on ammo.
Atracksler
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Well the 444 wins! Put it on hold this evening.
RSVP2RIP
Member
I've owned a 444 and curently own a 375 H&H. The 444 is onw hell of a cartridge and gets looked over too often. The 265gr Hornady bullet is really a great place to start. I relied on it for years on deer, never had one take another step after sucking one up. However, I find the 375 much more fun to shoot, but then my 375 weighs 10lbs. and is much more accurate than the 444 I had which shot about 1.25" at 100 yards. I kinda regret selling it, but then the love afair ended and it had to go. If someone asked what kind of lever gun to get I would always recomend a 444 marlin first.
firesky101
Member
You know, of course, we will be wanting pictures.
Pete D.
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$
Costs....very generalized: ammo for the .375 runs from $36/20 (Privi Partizan) to $168/20 (Kynoch). For the .444, the range is $33/20 (Hornady) to a load by Grizzly at $101/20.
The .375 is way more cartridge than the .444. In terms of raw energy, a hot .444 runs to about 3400 ft.lbs; one has to download the .375 to get that with factory load typically at 4000+ (One load actually lists 5000 ft.lbs ME). Downrange performance at all distances is better than the .444.
Kinda beside the point, though, for hunting moose in Maine.
Costs....very generalized: ammo for the .375 runs from $36/20 (Privi Partizan) to $168/20 (Kynoch). For the .444, the range is $33/20 (Hornady) to a load by Grizzly at $101/20.
The .375 is way more cartridge than the .444. In terms of raw energy, a hot .444 runs to about 3400 ft.lbs; one has to download the .375 to get that with factory load typically at 4000+ (One load actually lists 5000 ft.lbs ME). Downrange performance at all distances is better than the .444.
Kinda beside the point, though, for hunting moose in Maine.
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
"Way" more? Not really. Don't be fooled by the 265gr deer loads.
The .375 can launch a 300gr bullet at 2500fps. A late model 1-20" twist .444 can launch a 405gr (similar SD to the 300gr .375) at 2150fps. The .375 may produce a tad more energy (a worthless number) and shoot a bit flatter but the .444 will produce a bigger hole and penetrate just as deeply.
ou must post pics when you get it. I'd be willing to bet your next rifle is a 375 
When the ammo folks begin producing a .405 gr .444 at 2150 fps, the .444 will finally enter its rightful place near 4000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. On that day, we will have more overlap with the .375, but the .444 will never top the max loads out of a .375 H&H magnum. There is a reason that the .375 is king in Alaska and one of the most popular calibers in Africa. As much as I love my .444, it isn't a .375. A better comparison would be the .458 or the .416 Rigby compared to the .375.
Pete D.
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Ammo
Who makes a .429" 405 grain bullet?
I have found one single load for a 300 grain bullet that is pretty peppy at 2200 fps. but nothing for a 405 grainer. "Ruger #1 Only" loads for the larger 45-70 max the 400 grainer at under 1900 fps; the 350s go 2200.
I am curious about this .444 load for sure.
As to ME being a worthless figure.....it is a means of comparison. And.....it must have some validity since ALL of the dangerous game cartridges have a lot of it.
And one can find this ammo....where? Directions to load data please.
Who makes a .429" 405 grain bullet?
I have found one single load for a 300 grain bullet that is pretty peppy at 2200 fps. but nothing for a 405 grainer. "Ruger #1 Only" loads for the larger 45-70 max the 400 grainer at under 1900 fps; the 350s go 2200.
I am curious about this .444 load for sure.
As to ME being a worthless figure.....it is a means of comparison. And.....it must have some validity since ALL of the dangerous game cartridges have a lot of it.
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DM~
Member
There's no doubt in my mind that on the biggest big game in the US, the .375 H&H out performs the .444 Marlin. It will do anything and everything the .444 will do in the woods, and it will do things the .444 can't at longer ranges!
And yes, i have used both of them...
DM
And yes, i have used both of them...
DM
Isn't that why the comparison of a .444 with a .375 is a bit fabricated? They are two completely different calibers with a small area of overlap as far as utility. The .444 is a short range woods rifle well suited for bear defense and hunting less than two hundred yards.
The .375 is perhaps one of the most versatile rifles in use today. All the way from deer to elephants is within its utility. It is at home in the Alaska wilderness and the African plains.
It just isn't the usual sort of rifle calibers most folks would compare with each other. The fact that a .444 is not a .375 H&H magnum should not at all deter how useful and wonderful the .444 is within it's own niche. It is an accurate hard thumping woods gun with very manageable recoil.
The .375 is in a class all of it's own with a very different application across a number of settings. For me, the .444 is a great woods gun for the Northern Idaho woods. For this purpose, the .444 performs well.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Beartooth makes the bullets. RCBS, Hornady, Lee, Lyman, etc. all make presses and dies. Brass is aplenty. IMHO, to gain any level of proficiency with a rifle chambered in either cartridge, handloading is an absolute necessity.
Muzzle energy is meaningless and outdated. Too dependent on velocity and not a good gauge of a cartridge's effectiveness on game. Period.
Muzzle energy is meaningless and outdated. Too dependent on velocity and not a good gauge of a cartridge's effectiveness on game. Period.
Sport45
Member
Yeah, 400gr at 4125fps is a little much for the .444 Marlin. Buffalo Bore doesn't even go that far.
He may have been thinking of the guy at MarlinOwners who made a "Safari Grade" .444 that has a lengthened action allowing a larger powder charge. I don't know if he made 400@2150, but the thing is really impressive.
OP:
You'll like the .444 Marlin. I put a scope on mine for load development. After I found the best load (Ramshot TAC or X-Terminator under a 265gr FP work great in my MG barrel) I replaced the scope with a Williams peep and front fire sight. I'm 1" over the front sight orange dot at 50 yards and within the dot from 100 to about 200 yards. I rarely shoot at anything over 75 yards so this works well for me.
He may have been thinking of the guy at MarlinOwners who made a "Safari Grade" .444 that has a lengthened action allowing a larger powder charge. I don't know if he made 400@2150, but the thing is really impressive.
OP:
You'll like the .444 Marlin. I put a scope on mine for load development. After I found the best load (Ramshot TAC or X-Terminator under a 265gr FP work great in my MG barrel) I replaced the scope with a Williams peep and front fire sight. I'm 1" over the front sight orange dot at 50 yards and within the dot from 100 to about 200 yards. I rarely shoot at anything over 75 yards so this works well for me.
Sav .250
Member
Go for the gusto...........The 375H-H. That puppy is for all critters.
Atracksler
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Well, someone else bought the 375.... So I can't. I think the 444 would be more practical.
DM~
Member
I no longer shoot a .375 H&H, i've never really liked them. I do own a combo gun in 12ga/.444 Marlin that's a fun gun.
BUT, i've been around both cartridges long enough to know it's a no brainer! The 375 out performs the 444 in every way, and is a much better all around cartridge. On bigger big game or at longer ranges, to me it's not even close!
With the 375, you don't have to buy special bullets and reload spl. loads to get high performance or big game horse power. Just go buy a box of factory ammo, and go hunting! OR you can handload the 375 down for low recoil, or a spl. purpose...
Like was already said, it's a poor comparison...
DM
BUT, i've been around both cartridges long enough to know it's a no brainer! The 375 out performs the 444 in every way, and is a much better all around cartridge. On bigger big game or at longer ranges, to me it's not even close!
With the 375, you don't have to buy special bullets and reload spl. loads to get high performance or big game horse power. Just go buy a box of factory ammo, and go hunting! OR you can handload the 375 down for low recoil, or a spl. purpose...
Like was already said, it's a poor comparison...
DM
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