375 Ruger

[Llama Bob]

I didn't realize that Winchester, Remington, Browning, CZ, and Weatherby quit making rifles in .375 H&H.

Oh, wait . . . they didn't.

And let's see . . . how many manufacturers beside Ruger make .375 Ruger rifles? (insert sound of crickets)

I know - there is some weird nonsense being said in this thread.

.375 Ruger is a proprietary junk cartridge that Ruger created to avoid designing a true M77 magnum action. It could easily be unsupported next year if Hornady gets bored not selling ammo. The argument that the rifles are smaller and lighter doesn't make much sense, since safari rifles are intentionally made heavy for recoil reasons - your life may depend on a follow up shot. The first thing your PH will do when you get there is tell you to take that damn brake off your M77, because he's not going to lose his hearing for you. Then how's that light Hawkeye with the American stock going to feel to shoot? Safari rifles are heavy for a reason.

The .375 Ruger is strictly worse than the .375 H&H FOR THE INTENDED PURPOSE.

 

[Llama Bob]

After my last African hunt, it actually happened to my PH's next client, who was arriving at the airport as I was leaving; he had his carry on bag and his gun case arrived intact, but his checked bag - containing his ammo - didn't. I left my unused ammo behind with the PH - as do many clients - so if he had a .30/06 and a .375 H&H, he was still in business. Some proprietary round and he'd be out of luck.

Yup - a very common experience. There's nothing wrong with taking an oddball to Africa, but the rifle next to it in the case better be a .375 H&H since that can do everything (from a client, not PH perspective) if and when ammo for your oddball becomes a problem.

 

[CraigC]

You're confusing rifles with actions - unless you can name a bolt action rifle that is 2-3 pounds heavier due to a half inch of additional action length?

You're talking theory and I'm talking the actual guns in question. EVERYTHING about a .375H&H is bigger and heavier. The rifles are built on Magnum actions. The barrels are much heavier.

.375 Ruger is a proprietary junk cartridge that Ruger created to avoid designing a true M77 magnum action.

Ignorant statement. Firstly, how is a cartridge that does exactly as advertised a "junk cartridge"?

Secondly, Ruger had a wonderful magnum action incorporated into a beautifully made rifle. It was chambered in everything from 7mmMag to .416Rigby and .458Lott. Do your research.

The argument that the rifles are smaller and lighter doesn't make much sense, since safari rifles are intentionally made heavy for recoil reasons - your life may depend on a follow up shot.

The problem is that .375's are built exactly like .416's and .458's. There's no reason for a .375 to weigh 10lbs or more. But it's easier for manufacturers to have one barrel contour for all their heavy cartridges and that leads to .375's with overly heavy barrels. The Ruger escapes this by using a standard long action, often coupled with shorter barrels. If you can't handle the recoil from an 8lb .375, then you probably shouldn't be hunting game that requires a .375. I'd suggest knitting.

Hey, if you don't like them, don't buy one. But don't pretend for one second that they don't offer some things that others might find useful.

It could easily be unsupported next year if Hornady gets bored not selling ammo.

Utter BS. Got a newsflash that may injure your ego, despite your protests, people like the .375 (and .416) Ruger cartridge and the rifles that chamber it. It's not going away anytime soon and this fear that you'll be stuck with a rifle you can't feed is completely unfounded.

 

[CraigC]

The Ruger "Magnum" looked like this, cost $1500 back in the 1990's and weighed 10lbs.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/570719216

 

[Llama Bob]

Here's a thought: the .375 Ruger was introduced in 2007. In that time, it's sold very few rifles and failed to attract a 2nd ammo maker or meaningful 3rd party rifle manufacturing.

What do you want to bet the contract for Hornady to keep this unprofitable absurdity alive was for 10 years and runs out in 2017?

 

[CraigC]

Do you actually have any evidence to support your blathering? Why are you seemingly offended by the existence of this cartridge? The .375Ruger offers the same performance as the H&H in a shorter, lighter rifle. What's not to like?

Nosler makes ammo and brass.

http://www.nosler.com/375-ruger/

A word about availability in Africa.

http://www.sportsafield.com/content/375-ruger-ammo-available-africa

The TSA now allows ammo to be packed in the same case with the rifle so if you arrive with one, you arrive with the other.

As I said before, if you're worried about running out, which is an unfounded fear, buy a few hundred rounds of brass and never have to worry about it.

 

[Gtscotty]

Savage and Mossberg both offer .375 Ruger rifles, Howa used to, but I don't know if they still do.

 

[HankB]

You're talking theory and I'm talking the actual guns in question. EVERYTHING about a .375H&H is bigger and heavier. The rifles are built on Magnum actions. The barrels are much heavier.

I commented about rifle ACTIONS - specifically, that 1/2" of actual action length was significant only to gun writers. YOUR response was not to action length, but to everything else about the rifle - an irrelevancy to my specific comment.

And as far as .375 Ruger availability in Africa is concerned, to quote from the article you linked . . .

. . . I very much doubt you'll find it in the bigger cities or towns of Zimbabwe, Zambia, Mozambique, or Botswana.

These countries do not have any well-stocked gunshops like there are in South Africa or Namibia, so if your ammo goes missing at this stage of your journey, you'll have a problem . . .

The .375 Ruger has been around for a while, and as I said, it's not a bad cartridge. But it's not exactly setting the hunting world on fire, either. How will it fare, long term? Well, making predictions is difficult - especially about the future. But I think things look brighter for a cartridge like the H&H that not only has a vaster installed base, but has a LOT more MAJOR makers currently manufacturing rifles for it, too.

 

[Llama Bob]

Nosler makes ammo and brass.

Interesting, since no one sells their hypothetical ammo:

http://ammoseek.com/ammo/375-ruger

I'm just pointing out so that people don't spend a grand on a rifle that was born obsolete, and was never suited to the task at hand.

 

[Dane17]

The 375 ruger guide gun is more compact than any comparable h&h I've seen while maintaining the same or slightly better performance. This is the reason I bought it and I'm very glad I did so. I have yet to encounter a PH or guide who gives me grief about the muzzle brake. If I wanted something bigger I won!d have gone h&h.

We are lucky as gun buyers we have such a finely nuanced choice between relatively equivalent projectiles.

We should be happy we have these options, not disturbed by them as some would seem to be...

 

[Llama Bob]

But I think things look brighter for a cartridge like the H&H that not only has a vaster installed base, but has a LOT more MAJOR makers currently manufacturing rifles for it, too.

Well no duh - when you make a new cartridge that's proprietary AND worse at the task at hand than an existing cartridge, it's going to fail. And if you're Ruger, you'll get to take money from a few people who fall for the hype along the way. It's much cheaper for a rifle maker to adopt a new cartridge than for an ammo maker - as long as the bore diameter is already in use, all they need is a new reamer. It's the customers that get screwed.

And in this case, I have a feeling they're REALLY going to get screwed, since this proprietary wonder has no parent case. So when the brass is gone, it's GONE.

 

[Elkins45]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why a cartridge that fires the same bullet at the same velocity is less suited for the task.

I smell trolls.

 

[Llama Bob]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why a cartridge that fires the same bullet at the same velocity is less suited for the task.

People have explained it plenty. You're just intentionally ignoring what they have to tell you. Here's a summary in case anyone doesn't understand yet:
- lighter is not better for a safari rifle
- ammo availability is ESSENTIAL for a safari rifle
- removing taper and headspacing on the shoulder hurts extraction reliability
- there is only one ammo manufacturer
- it's entirely possible ammo and brass will become completely unavailable, quite possibly next year. The Ruger/Hornady contract doesn't last forever, and very few rifles have been sold.

In contrast .375 H&H has an enormous rifle base, is more reliable, and most importantly you can expect to be able to easily buy both bonded soft points and solids wherever big game is hunted.

 

[dragon813gt]

So is someone going to post a report of how many rifles have been sold? Preferably from the manufacturers because they are the ones that made them. Not saying that a lot have been sold. But wild claims about sales numbers are quite common.

I have one word of advice if you plan on purchasing a 375 Ruger. You better learn to reload. Buy a lifetime supply of brass now while it's available. Cartridges die all the time. Relying on factory ammo for all but the most common cartridges will eventually bite you. Just ask all the guys that have rifles chambered in 375 Winchester. The list of here and gone cartridges is quite extensive.

 

[Llama Bob]

I have one word of advice if you plan on purchasing a 375 Ruger. You better learn to reload. Buy a lifetime supply of brass now while it's available. Cartridges die all the time. Relying on factory ammo for all but the most common cartridges will eventually bite you. Just ask all the guys that have rifles chambered in 375 Winchester. The list of here and gone cartridges is quite extensive.

Good advice. Just ask anyone with a Winchester model 71. There were 60,000 rifles made as late as the 2000s and good luck finding a box of functional ammo or some Winchester brass. I doubt Ruger's managed to sell 1/10th that number of rifles.

 

[Elkins45]

Llama,

Do you have any objective data that indicates the 375 Ruger has suffered from any sort of extraction problem? Everything else you posted that is critical of the rifle is irrelevant in a discussion of the cartridge because one can always spec a heavier rifle if they want.

You are way too invested in this argument: do you have some sort of axe to grind against Ruger?

 

[Llama Bob]

Nope, I like Ruger just fine and own a few of their guns. I just have no interest in supporting junk cartridges.

One of the basic lessons of African hunting, which could reasonably be applied to all hunting where things can go south in a hurry, is that equipment is not as good or as reliable as it seemed on the bench and this goes triple for new junk. Consider the history of the .458 Win Mag. It was supposed to be just like the .450 NE, only almost an inch shorter and chambered in lighter, cheaper guns. Sound familiar? In the US, it worked great.

Subject it to the heat and humidity of Africa, and a ****show ensued. The powder clumped. Ignition wasn't reliable. The cases stuck in the chamber. Winchester had taken out taper to make powder room - sound familiar? Now, 60 years later, we've managed to figure out how to load ammo that doesn't have those problems. Although much of what's commercially sold still does suck, and .458WM stories (none good) are as African as the tsetse fly.

This is a similar situation - Ruger is trying to take something that WORKS and has for over a hundred years, and replace it with something that might work after 50 years of fiddling. Only .375 Ruger won't be around in 50 years, because it's on the brink of death now. Note how Craig was all excited to show me Nosler ammo, only there actually isn't any for sale. Wonder why that might be...

 

[Elkins45]

So then you DON'T have any data to show that the 375 Ruger has suffered from extraction problems. Right, that's what I thought.

I have 200 cases and will never go to Africa. Thanks for trying to protect me from myself, but I'm managing just fine.

 

[Llama Bob]

When faced with a charging buffalo, I want a long history of success, not someone on the internet arguing there's not sufficient evidence of failure. BIG difference. Call me in 2105 when the thing's got a track record. Only you and I both know it won't make it 10 years, let alone 100.

 

[Elkins45]

When faced with a charging buffalo I take away its credit card.

The OP wasn't asking about a safari rifle. You are the one that inserted Africa into the discussion .

 

[Llama Bob]

Africa is what the .375 is for. They don't call it a Hawkeye African because they figure you're hunting Pennsylvania white tails.

 

[AKMtnRunner]

People have explained it plenty. You're just intentionally ignoring what they have to tell you. Here's a summary in case anyone doesn't understand yet:
- lighter is not better for a safari rifle
- ammo availability is ESSENTIAL for a safari rifle
- removing taper and headspacing on the shoulder hurts extraction reliability
- there is only one ammo manufacturer
- it's entirely possible ammo and brass will become completely unavailable, quite possibly next year. The Ruger/Hornady contract doesn't last forever, and very few rifles have been sold.

In contrast .375 H&H has an enormous rifle base, is more reliable, and most importantly you can expect to be able to easily buy both bonded soft points and solids wherever big game is hunted.

You're putting the 375 Ruger's purpose into a narrow view and assuming ammo won't be manufactured in another 1-2 years. ANY cartridge, according to that mindset, will fail. Who said the 375 Ruger was only meant as a safari rifle? It's one of the few 375 rifles that are stainless, they're the lightest, and they're economically produced. The only thing working against it is the tradition of the H&H. If you mean "junk" as less common, okay that is fair. But, if you don't think it's worthwhile because it's less common then we should have never bothered with any of the new cartridges since 1950.

Now, if factory ammo does in fact become discontinued, well you can put a feather in your cap. But until then, we're just debating the weather. However, there are quite a number of cartridges that factory ammo has been discontinued but have steady followings.

 

[AKMtnRunner]

Africa is what the .375 is for. They don't call it a Hawkeye African because they figure you're hunting Pennsylvania white tails.

They called their rifle the Alaskan, and now there's the Guide Gun. Both in stainless with synthetic then laminate, respectively. Savage, Mossberg, and Howa rifles also in stainless/synthetic. You'd be hard pressed to find a more ideal do-it-all rifle/cartridge configuration in coastal Alaska than a weather resistant 375 something with shorter overall length.

 

[Llama Bob]

It's not going to be any more useful in Alaska with no ammo and no brass than it will be in Africa. On the plus side I guess it will be a weather-resistant club

 

[Corn-Picker]

It's not going to be any more useful in Alaska with no ammo and no brass than it will be in Africa. On the plus side I guess it will be a weather-resistant club

If you're that confident in its demise, you should invest some dollars in 375 Ruger brass. If the round does go extinct you should make some money http://www.midwayusa.com/product/820702/hornady-reloading-brass-375-ruger-box-of-50

My opinion is that you choose the rifle, then the chambering. I'd rather have a rifle that fits me (Guide gun with 12 3/4" LOP) chambered in a proprietary cartridge than a rifle that didn't fit me chambered in a classic cartridge.