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38/357 Rifle Loads

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by ruger1228, Dec 5, 2010.

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  1. ruger1228

    ruger1228 Member

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    I purchased a Marlin 1895 cowboy rifle in 38/357 magnum, I already reload this caliber for my Ruger Blackhawk. My question is, Can I use these same rounds for the Marlin rifle? My shooting would be mostly plinking and informal target shooting. No cowboy competition.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  2. woodsoup

    woodsoup Member

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    Works for me so it should work for you too. Hodgon site has .357 load data for rifles. Make sure you choose the rifle cartridge type. Example below.

    Cartridge: 357 Magnum
    Load Type: Rifle
    Starting Loads

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Maximum Loads

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    180 GR. NOS PART Hodgdon H4227 .357" 1.575" 12.7 1185 36,900 CUP 13.7 1325 40,900 CUP
    180 GR. NOS PART Hodgdon H110 .357" 1.575" 13.0 1324 36,800 CUP 13.5 1381 39,100 CUP


    NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS
     
  3. Jeff H

    Jeff H Member

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    While there is certainly truth to this statement...

    There aren't many 357 guns stronger than the Blackhawk. Mine is a tank.
     
  4. OldMac

    OldMac Member

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    I am usually more concerned with the reversed situation. According to the Hornady manual, the maximum loads for the rifle are lower than the revolver. I usually try to find a load that is identical so I don't have to worry about it.
    e.g. 160gr bullet with IMR 4227: rifle=13.8gr(14.3gr max), revolver=13.8gr(14.5gr max)
     
  5. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    As long as you're not loading maximum charges for your revolver, your loads will be fine in the Marlin. What you will find is that the Marlin will like Round Nose Flat Point bullets much better than Semiwadcutter bullets for feeding. You'll also get smoother feeding with your .38 Special loads with an over all length of at least 1.480". All the rounds loaded for the rifle will also require a good roll crimp, as the magazine spring produces a lot of pressure, especially with a full magazine. A collapsed round (the bullet pushed into the case) will lock up the action.

    My wife and I both shoot Marlins for SASS matches, and this has been our experience.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
  6. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I don't think anyone lists data that is not safe in either revolvers or lever-actions.

    SAAMI Max pressure spec for the .357 is 35,000 PSI, no matter what you shoot them in.

    What you won't find in the rifle data section is mouse fart loads using fast powder and jacketed bullets.

    They might work fine in a revolver, but might stick in the barrel of a rifle.

    rc
     
  7. Furncliff

    Furncliff Member

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  8. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    Something I've recently discovered with my Marlin is that it will cycle .357 Magnum DEWC's just fine, and I can load 11 in the magazine. Now I just gotta see if it will shoot them OK. (I'm planning to load them up to CIP pressures instead of SAAMI if I can get there without excessive leading. Should be able to hit 1700 fps using AA#7 or 2400, and close to that with Power Pistol)
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2010
  9. kelbro

    kelbro Member

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    My 1894CS loads 357 WCs just fine. I crimp mine in the first groove. Never shot them in it so I don't know about the leading.
     
  10. Daniel Rando

    Daniel Rando Member

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    do not fire anything loaded for that rifle in that pistol, my dad blowed the cylender and arked the fram on a blackhawk . Dont do It!
     
  11. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    .357 Magnum ammo is .357 Magnum ammo no matter if you fire it in a Carbine or handgun. It's all the same ammo unless you want to use a different bullet for hunting in your Carbine.
    The charge weights are the same on the handgun and rifle data. The difference is the velocity numbers. They give you the velocity reading from the longer barrel in the rifle section. Again, the charge weights are the same since the SAAMI pressure limits are the same.
     
  12. evan price

    evan price Member

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    357 Magnum is defined by SAAMI has a maximum PSI level and that is the same for a rifle OR a pistol. There's no +P 357 which has safe data anywhere except for the person who developed it. IMHO using a slower powder in a rifle is beneficial simply because you have more burn time in the longer barrel. However properly loaded Magnums will already be loaded with a slow powder like H4227 or W296/H110 and you can't do much with that. You absolutely can't add a couple more grains to a max loading "because it's a rifle"!!!

    Anything loaded to SAAMI standards will work in a rifle OR a pistol, with the exception of very light loads as has been said above are not wise in a long tube (rifle barrel).
     
  13. Skip_a_roo

    Skip_a_roo Member

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    Well, I think you need to check what the rifle says on the side of the barrel first. All of the Marlin 1895's that I've ever seen are 45/70 caliber. They do make a 444 Marlin in the same configuration. I think you have a Marlin 1894 friend. It is the only model they currently make in 38/357Mag.

    The "cowboy" model has an octagon barrel and Ballard rifling. The original Marlin 1894 in that caliber had their micro groove rifling that didn't like fast lead bullets.

    Now, if you have an 1894C, I can help because I have the exact same rifle! ;)

    It is going to depend on what you want to do with the rifle. Are you hunting with it? Then you can find loads that really crank it up using the full length of the barrel. Recently, Brian Pearce had an article in Rifle Magazine where it talks about the 357Mag Marlin and wringing out all you can from the 20" barrel with safe loads.

    I am currently using a load from that article for the wife to hunt with. It has a 158gr XTP running just over 2000fps from the little carbine! That makes the load right at the bottom of the 35Remington performance. That is real good in states where they don't allow high powered rifles for deer hunting, like Indiana.

    At any rate, in answer to your question, yes you can. :D
     
  14. Kernel

    Kernel Member

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    “To me, the 10-shot 1894C .357 Magnum is the handiest and most desirable of all centerfire rifles of any caliber or action type.” -- John Taffin

    Now, that’s saying something!
     
  15. squarles67

    squarles67 Member

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    Anything within SAMMI spec for .357 mag is safe for a revolver or rifle so chambered. I have also found as someone already mentioned that RNFP feed better in my Marlin 1894 Cowboy. Mine feeds both 38 special and 357 mag equally well.

    I use 2.9g of Clays under a 158g RNFP (Missouri Bullet #15 Cowboy) in a 38 special case for a Cowboy competition load and it is quite accurate in both my rifle and revolvers and also very economical to load.

    Factory Americal Eagle .357 Mag 158g JSP clocked at 1820fps out of my 20" barrel Marlin. 16.7 grains of Lil Gun in a 357 case and 158g Remington JHP gives me 1838 fps and is also very accurate in my gun.
     
  16. ruger1228

    ruger1228 Member

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    This is the rifle I have:http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/1894centerfire/1894C.asp
    Sorry about the mixup.
    Any hints or pointers on removing the breech bolt and ejector from the rifle for cleaning?
    Thanks for pointing out the correct model number.
     
  17. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I also own a Marlin 1894C and I agree, it's a great rifle to own and shoot!
     
  18. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    In otherwords, your dad screwed up while reloading.

    If he blew up his Blackhawk, he would have blown up his Marlin 1894 if he had shot the same round in it.

    rc
     
  19. Ledhore

    Ledhore Member

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    I've got one and love it. Cool thing is that slower powders like 2400 will give a big velocity boost in the longer barrel. Same load in a revolver using slow burn powder will increase up to 400 ft/sec or so in the carbine. Mine also feeds .38 full wadcutters when loaded outside of the case mouth - so quiet with 38's that no ear plugs needed.

    I run all of my marlin loads through my GP-100 with no problems - like the man said .357 is .357.
     
  20. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    ruger1228,

    You can download the owner's manual from the site, if you don't have one.

    To remove the bolt, all you have to do is use a proper fitting screwdriver and remove the screw that holds the lever in, and that the lever pivots on. Do this with the bolt partially open, by the way. Remove the lever and then slide the bolt out the rear of the receiver and catch the ejector, as it will sometimes pop out unless you tilt the rifle over on it's left side. You can clean the barrel from the chamber end and not damage the crown, just like a bolt action rifle. You can also clean the action.

    When you put it back together, put the ejector back in it's slot, replace the bolt and leave it open about half an inch. Feed the lever up through the bottom of the receiver and you can feel when the top of the lever tang slides into the the slot in the bolt. Once the screw hole in the lever is lined up with the screw hole in the receiver, replace the lever screw. Then work the action and make sure everything works smoothly.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
  21. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    Loads that work the best in my .357 and .44 revolvers, also work the best outta my .357 and .44 carbines. Just my experience. One thing I may add is, many reloading manuals recommend using virgin or once fired brass for high power loads in pistol caliber lever actions. This is because of the way levers lock up at the rear and may allow the case to stretch when fired.
     
  22. Skip_a_roo

    Skip_a_roo Member

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    I am well aware that folks use the same load for their handguns as they do their pistol caliber rifles. My load would not be best suited for a handgun. Not because the pressure is too high or anything like that. My rifle load incorporates Lil' Gun as the propellant.

    There have been recent occurrences in some of the bigger caliber handguns where Lil' Gun was blamed for excessive frame erosion and barrel fatigue. Mostly because of the barrel/cylinder gap, if I remember correctly.

    I choose to use jacketed bullets, 158gr XTP and Lil' Gun in the rifle and my H&G #290BB, 160gr LSWC (Sharpe design) in my M586. Do I need to do that? Maybe yes and maybe no. I don't want to ruin a perfectly good M586 to find out though! ;)
     
  23. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    I also use Hodgdon's Lil'Gun in some of my heavy bullet (175 - 185 gr.) loads for my Marlin Carbines, but I don't use it in any of my .357 Magnum handguns. There have been reports of flame cutting of the top strap in revolvers, so as Skip_a_roo pointed out, there's no sense in risking my handguns using it. For handgun loads, I use H-110/Win. 296 or AA-9 for hot loads. For everything else in .38 Special, I use either Bullseye or SR-4756.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
  24. Skip_a_roo

    Skip_a_roo Member

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    I also have a rifle load for the wife, 158gr LSWC with a Speer #8 load of SR4756 and it delivers 1280fps from the M586 and 1580fps from the rifle. SR4756 is only useful when loaded to older data, in my opinion.

    The Marlin 1894 carbine rifle is one of the best platforms for those kinds of loads. It seems to me too that the barrel isn't as big for the caliber like their 44Mag cousins and that makes shooting lead a good/easy thing to do with them in 357Mag.

    They shoot jacketed bullets very well too.
     
  25. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Like Skip and Fred I also use Lil'Gun for my heavy bullet .357 Magnum ammo used in my Carbine. I won't use it in revolver ammo either. I will tell you using Lil'Gun with a 170gr or 180gr bullet give a 100+fps boost over W296/H110 in a long barrel Carbine. according to Hodgdon the pressures are lower too.
     
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