38/357 Rifle Loads

[Daniel Rando]

Member



Join Date: January 16, 2009
Location: Orange, Texas
Posts: 78 Anything within SAMMI spec for .357 mag is safe for a revolver or rifle so chambered. I have also found as someone already mentioned that RNFP feed better in my Marlin 1894 Cowboy. Mine feeds both 38 special and 357 mag equally well.

If this is so then Why does Hornady reloading book have a specific load for rifle?
and why did my olmans gun blow up in his face.

 

[Skip_a_roo]

Sometimes we don't want to hear the truth. The reason that your Dad's gun blew up in his face is because it was probably his fault. I'm not trying to be mean, don't take it that way but, there is only one individual that was ever perfect, not me or your dad.

If something happens when I am the handloader to the firearm, I am the problem 99% of the time. Either I think I know more than the books written by experts or simply a careless mistake. I hope that your father didn't get seriously injured when this mishap occured.

Any firearm made by any reputable American firearm company will handle SAAMI specification loaded ammo, period. All bets are off when it comes to the "Lorcin's" of this world.

Either a stuck bullet or an overcharge or.............That rifle and handgun will take any SAAMI pressure load you can give it for the caliber, period.

p.s. Look at the data for the rifle very carefully. The amount of powder is probably the same in the 357Mag data for either firearm. The results simply reflect the difference in velocity that one gets from the longer barrel. Check it out.

 

[R.W.Dale]

With 158g bullets using LilGun in my carbines I didn't really see any performance increase over 296/h110 loads. What I did get though was NO accuracy whatsoever, 100fps + ES numbers and A great deal more case head expansion than 296

Honestly I think HOGDGDON needs to reevaluate their LilGun data, I fully predict that in the future you'll see the data cut way back or even pulled.

A couple links sharing lessons learned loading for 357 carbines
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=513183
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=502030

 

[kelbro]

The low end of the Lil Gun load recs (16.0-16.6) shoot just fine in my 1894C. Fast enough and accurate enough. No need to push the envelope in a 125yd rifle. If I want a 35 Whelen, I will buy one

 

[ReloaderFred]

Like I posted above, I use Lil'Gun for HEAVY bullets in my .357 Magnum carbines. The lightest bullet I use with that powder is 175 grains, and the heaviest is 185 grains. In that bullet weight range, Lil'Gun boosts the velocity 123 fps on average.

With the 185 grain cast RNFP-GC bullet that I cast and shoot, the maximum load listed for Winchester 296 will get me 1583 fps average. With my load of Lil'Gun, I get an average of 1710 fps. Both loads are very accurate in my carbines, but I prefer the Lil'Gun load since it delivers the accuracy, plus the velocity. The brass doesn't come out of my rifle expanded any more than with Win. 296/H-110. All velocities were measured at 15' over my PACT Professional Chronograph at a mean temperature of 61 degrees at sea level.

That's been my experience with these bullets and powders.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[squarles67]

If this is so then Why does Hornady reloading book have a specific load for rifle?
and why did my olmans gun blow up in his face.

As mentioned above the rifle data charge weights are likely similar or the same in the Hornady manual but with the longer barrel of the rifle the velocity is higher. (I don't have a Hornady manual but this is true for Hodgdon data)

As to why your Dad's gun blew up, no way to know without a lot more info.

 

[KosmicKrunch]

I use the same load and bullet for both pistol and rifle, the rifle is a marlin 38/357 and the pistol is a S&W 1926 M&P .38spl. The load is, 158gr LRN (#2 alloy with a 50/50 Alox/Beeswax lube), CCI SPP, 4.3gr Universal.

I get very good accuracy in both the pistol and rilfe and neither causes leading. There is enough power in both to "Clank" the metal targets down no matter where I hit them.

I am getting about 988 vel and my OAL is 1.475 in the pistol and about 1100 vel in the rifle, same OAL.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

As I said in Post #11:

The charge weights are the same on the handgun and rifle data. The difference is the velocity numbers. They give you the velocity reading from the longer barrel in the rifle section. Again, the charge weights are the same since the SAAMI pressure limits are the same.

Is there really a reason to continue arguing the issue when the numbers on the Hodgdon site prove it out?

As for Lil'Gun delivering more velocity than W296/H110 with heavy bullets in a Carbine, it absolutely does!
This is the results when fired from a Marlin 1894C w/18.5" barrel:
170gr Sierra JHC bullet
W296 = 1699 fps
Lil'Gun = 1793 fps

180gr Hornady XTP bullet
W296 = 1495 fps
Lil'Gun = 1594 fps

180gr Cast Performance WFNGC bullet
W296 = 1547 fps
Lil'Gun = 1657 fps

 

[LightningMan]

I haven't read all these post yet so I don't know if its been mentioned, but in the old Speer No.#11 manual there's separate data sections for handgun and rifle for some calibers like .357 & .44 mag. LM

 

[rcmodel]

If this is so then Why does Hornady reloading book have a specific load for rifle?
and why did my olmans gun blow up in his face.

I sent this to you in an answer to your PM.

Originally PM'd by Daniel Rando

Do you know for a fact that you can reload for rifle outa hornady book then fire in a pistol without any problem? Thanks.

Yes, I do know for a fact any .357 Magnum load listed in any reloading manual is safe in any .357 Mag handgun, or rifle.

There are no seperate SAAMI pressure specs for one or the other. If there were, people would be blowing up guns right & left every day.

The only exception would be the very light lead bullet handgun loads I mentioned in the thread. If fired in a 26" rifle barrel, they "might" not have enough power or velocity to get the bullet out of the barrel. For instance, Hornady lists a 158 grain lead bullet with only 2.5 grains of Clays powder in the Handgun section. They for sure don't list that load in the Rifle section!

In glancing through the Hornady #6 manual, rifle & hangun loads are pretty much the same.
In a few cases, with some powders & lighter bullet weights, it is less in the rifle by 0.1 or 0.2 grains.
This appears to be done to prevent the lighter bullet weights from exceeding bullet design velocity out of the longer barrel of the carbine or rifle, and Not for pressure reasons.

But comparing the heavier 180 grain XTP with 2400 powder?
Pistol max is 12.6 and rifle max is 12.7.

Here we see the simple effect of the testing being done in two different weapons, with two different barrels, on two different days in the lab.


If the gunshow reload blew up a Blackhawk, it most certainly would have blown a Marlin Carbine as well, had it been fired in it.

Most likely, one round in the box of gunshow reloads had a double-charge in it, and it just happened to be in the Blackhawk when it went KaBoom.

rc

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

can't help with any data just some info.
a shooting buddy has a Marlin .357 lever and loads his own (IIRC blue dot powder) 158gr jsp's that really whack a steel disc at 100 yds. accurate too. he also has a Ruger revolver in .357.

 

[ruger1228]

Thanks for all the help guys. Just shot it for the first time. I used Delta Precision 158gr SWC over 5.4gr Hodgdon Universal. This was what I had loaded up for the BlackHawk.
Shot OK but nothing exceptional on accuracy.
What weight bullet do you thinks shoots best out of this rifle? I am open to any and all information. I do like to stay with Hodgdon Powder and currently have Clays, Universal Clays, HP38, and Titegroup on hand. Bullets I have on hand are 158gr Hornady JHP, 158gr S&S casting RNFP, and Delta Precision 158gr SWC.
Thanks for the help. This gun is a joy to shoot

 

[justashooter in pa]

early marlin 94C in 357 had microgroove hammer forged rifling that does not like cast bullets. it just doesn't grab them well enuf in ordinary alloys. later guns had a ballard style rifling that eats cast lead with the best of them. the cut-off was in the mid 90's, IIRC.

200 grain plain based lead round nose with about 12 grains of WW-296 is as good for heavy game as you're gonna get in this rifle.

 

[kelbro]

158 and 170 gr shoot well in mine.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I shoot cast bullets through all my Marlin carbines, both Micro-Groove and Ballard Cut Rifling. All you have to do is properly size the bullet to the bore. Both types of rifling are capable of very good accuracy, if loaded properly.

The myth of not shooting cast bullets in Micro-Groove barrels resulted from improperly sized bullets for the bores. You can't run a .357" diameter cast bullet through a .359" bore and expect good accuracy or stabilization.

I've never seen a .357 Magnum firearm that didn't shoot better with a heavier bullet than a light one. For my Carbines, I like cast bullets in the 175 gr. to 185 gr. range, though for SASS I use 125 gr. cast bullets with medium charges of Bullseye. This is through both Micro-Groove and Ballard barrels, with all bullets sized .358".

Don't limit your powder choices to one brand, or you'll never achieve the best accuracy. You have to experiment to find what your rifle/pistol combination likes, and what works well in both of them. There will probably be a bit of compromise involved and you'll find a happy medium that works reasonably well in both platforms.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have to agree with Fred. My .357 Magnum Carbine shoots better with heavy bullets. It has micro-groove rifling and it shoots 180gr .358" Hard Cast bullets very well. It especially likes 180gr WFNGC bullets from Cast Performance. Their 160gr bullets without a GC also shoot well but not as well as the heavier bullets.

 

[Mecanik]

.38 special rifle loads

I'm looking to create some rifle loads for a .38 special cowboy gun. I've got tons of .38 special brass but almost no .357 brass. I don't want to exceed +P pressures just in case it gets stuffed into a pistol of some sort. But I want to make use of some slower powders to improve the velocity out of a rifle barrel. Any suggestions. Most of the manuals seem to avoid the subject. I know there are .38/.357 duplicate loads out there but I'm not going to exceed .38 +P for any reason. I've almost settled on 8.5 grs of 2400 behind a 158 gr JHP. Any thoughts on that.

 

[zxcvbob]

I'm looking to create some rifle loads for a .38 special cowboy gun. I've got tons of .38 special brass but almost no .357 brass.

I've found that I can load a 148 grain DEWC bullet in a .38 Special case to an OAL of about 1.35" and it will cycle just fine in my Marlin, will chamber in any of my .357 Magnum handguns, and will not not chamber in any of my .38 Specials. I have a nice magnum-ish load with this combination for a revolver, using 7.0 grains of WSF powder.

It's almost spring when I can work up a proper carbine load -- Power Pistol looks good on paper but I don't remember how much and I'm not going to guess at it here. (I can check when I get home)