Guys im tore. I want to get into SASS and CAS but i dont know what calober to go for. I already have reloading equipment for 38/357 and the cost to shoot is much better than 45 colt. But 45 colt is more original and that is a big part to me. Anyone out there who shoots CAS/ SASS that can weight in on this?
38/357 or 45 colt for SASS?
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OneSevenDeuce
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I was faced with the same decision when I started about a year ago. I'm a history guy myself, so the .45 Colt did have some attraction for me. However I ended up going with 38/357 after I saw the availability (or lack thereof) of 45 Colt. All my stuff is in 357 except for my model 1866 which comes from Cimarron in 38 only. I couldn't be happier with my choice. It's cheaper, which means I get to shoot more. More common, which means guns and accessories are easier to find. The choice is yours based on your personal priorities.
Jim Watson
Member
Just depends on what you are after.
.38 costs less and kicks less. The light loads commonly used are about like standard .32-20 which was a fairly popular caliber in the late frontier years after the buffalo and much of the other game had been killed off.
.45 is more "Cowboy." But you will pay for it.
Me?
When I was big into CAS, I shot .44-40s.
But if I went back, I would get .38s.
.38 costs less and kicks less. The light loads commonly used are about like standard .32-20 which was a fairly popular caliber in the late frontier years after the buffalo and much of the other game had been killed off.
.45 is more "Cowboy." But you will pay for it.
Me?
When I was big into CAS, I shot .44-40s.
But if I went back, I would get .38s.
OneSevenDeuce
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I will admit that I still do want a .45C and will probably end up with a peacemaker replica sometime very soon!
cpt-t
Member
FosterEDC: A pair of RUGER VAQUERO`S IN 45LC, with a good LEVER RIFLE of the same caliber and a WIN 97 SHOT GUN. Is hard to beat IMHO. I have been using these for many years now, with out any problems. And I have never had any problems knocking over any steel targets with the 45LC. I really hope You like CAS, I think it is a hoot to shoot at CAS`s and You will meet some really nice people shooting at them. Good Luck To You:
ken
ken
BCRider
Member
If you shoot a lot of matches and practice the cost of the .45 does add up. But if you're one of the folks that is able to show up at the out of town meets with a big and fancy RV or trailer I'd suggest that the added ammo cost likely isn't a big concern.... 
I already had and have .357Mag/.38Spl S&W's and I simply didn't want to increase my list of ammo loads. So I stuck with the .357 bore size. I justify it by considering it as being close enough to .38-20....
I already had and have .357Mag/.38Spl S&W's and I simply didn't want to increase my list of ammo loads. So I stuck with the .357 bore size. I justify it by considering it as being close enough to .38-20....
midland man
Member
so question? whats the costs per round lead bullets only to shoot between 45 colt using 250gr rnfp and 6.8gr greendot vs loading 357 mag using 158gr lead bullets? thanks!
BSA1
member
FosterEDC,
Two comments;
1st; go to the SASS website discussion forum and ask for advice.
2nd; BEFORE you buy any guns go to some SASS Matches, watch and ask the shooters questions. Almost all of them are friendly, are glad to help Pards get started and are willing to let you shoot their guns.
There are a number of different shooting categories you should be familiar with before you buy. For example Classic Cowboy requires handguns and rifle 40 caliber and larger.
Two comments;
1st; go to the SASS website discussion forum and ask for advice.
2nd; BEFORE you buy any guns go to some SASS Matches, watch and ask the shooters questions. Almost all of them are friendly, are glad to help Pards get started and are willing to let you shoot their guns.
There are a number of different shooting categories you should be familiar with before you buy. For example Classic Cowboy requires handguns and rifle 40 caliber and larger.
zxcvbob
Member
The .45 Colt is lighter; you wouldn't think so, but there's less metal and more hole in the cylinder and barrel. That more than makes up for the heavier bullets.
It might make a difference in quick shooting.
If you reload, the difference in cost is pretty minimal. If you don't reload, you won't be able to shoot either one if you get serious about it.
It might make a difference in quick shooting.
If you reload, the difference in cost is pretty minimal. If you don't reload, you won't be able to shoot either one if you get serious about it.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
It is excellent advice to attend a shoot or two before you spend one red cent on equipment. You need to get a feel for the sport and get a feel for how you want to pursue it. There are many ways.
You also should visit the SASS Wire where you can ask questions.
http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?&&&CODE=00
Not a bad idea to check out the Shooter's Handbook either, so you don't go out and buy something you're not allowed to use.
http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/SASS%20Handbook%20Ver%2019_2.pdf
As I said a minute ago, there are many ways to pursue the sport. Many shooters are intensely competitive. Others take a more relaxed approach. Still others like myself only shoot Black Powder.
These days pretty much all the competitive shooters are shooting lightly loaded 38 Specials in their pistols and rifles.
There is something to be said for the romance of the 45 Colt, but I wish I had a dollar for each shooter who just had to have pair of 45s, but discovered that to be competitive he had to load them so lightly that they recoiled about like a lightly loaded 38. 45 Colt does not behave well when loaded that light, too much empty space in the cartridge. Most of those guys eventually switched to 38s.
Sorry, I cannot comment on the comparitive cost of loading 45 Colt vs 38 Special as I have not loaded any Smokeless 45 Colt for some time now, and with the cost of components always going up none of my old figures are current.
I will say that very few competitors load 45 Colt with a 250 grain bullet. Most are shooting 200 grains or less. Same with 38s. Most are shooting 125 grain or lighter bullets.
Personally, I usually shoot 45 Colt in my pistols and 44-40 in my rifles with a charge of about 35 grains of FFg, 250 grain bullets in the pistols and 200 grains in the rifle. But I am a bit unusual.
It is excellent advice to attend a shoot or two before you spend one red cent on equipment. You need to get a feel for the sport and get a feel for how you want to pursue it. There are many ways.
You also should visit the SASS Wire where you can ask questions.
http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?&&&CODE=00
Not a bad idea to check out the Shooter's Handbook either, so you don't go out and buy something you're not allowed to use.
http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/SASS%20Handbook%20Ver%2019_2.pdf
As I said a minute ago, there are many ways to pursue the sport. Many shooters are intensely competitive. Others take a more relaxed approach. Still others like myself only shoot Black Powder.
These days pretty much all the competitive shooters are shooting lightly loaded 38 Specials in their pistols and rifles.
There is something to be said for the romance of the 45 Colt, but I wish I had a dollar for each shooter who just had to have pair of 45s, but discovered that to be competitive he had to load them so lightly that they recoiled about like a lightly loaded 38. 45 Colt does not behave well when loaded that light, too much empty space in the cartridge. Most of those guys eventually switched to 38s.
Sorry, I cannot comment on the comparitive cost of loading 45 Colt vs 38 Special as I have not loaded any Smokeless 45 Colt for some time now, and with the cost of components always going up none of my old figures are current.
I will say that very few competitors load 45 Colt with a 250 grain bullet. Most are shooting 200 grains or less. Same with 38s. Most are shooting 125 grain or lighter bullets.
Personally, I usually shoot 45 Colt in my pistols and 44-40 in my rifles with a charge of about 35 grains of FFg, 250 grain bullets in the pistols and 200 grains in the rifle. But I am a bit unusual.
J-Bar
Member
No. The consistent winners use .38 Specials.
Classic Cowboy category requires the use of rifles and pistols .40 caliber or greater (.36 caliber percussion revolvers are acceptable). Otherwise, if one wants to compete with the fast shooters, one will find .38 Specials are most common.
I started shooting SASS/Cowboy Action with .45 Colt in both revolvers and handguns. Still have them. Some days you just feel like punishing the targets. Most of the time I will be shooting blackpowder loads in a .357/.38 rifle and percussion revolvers.
Don't wait to get into the sport. Visit a club if you have not already done so. Shoot what you got. If you are like most of us, you will add more guns to your armory as your taste develops.
Crunchy Frog
Member
First, welcome to the sport! It really is a lot of fun and the people are great.
Lots of good advice above, some of it from forum members whose opinions I respect very much.
I've been shooting cowboy since early 2010. The "come out to a couple of matches before buying anything" is always good advice.
The bottom line of the "which caliber" issue (much like the "which guns" or "which category" question) is to do what YOU find interesting and enjoyable.
When I got started, I had no suitable firearms but I was set up to load .38/.357 (in fact I had a few hundred lead bullet .38 Special cartridges ready to go). For several months I shared guns with other shooters, most of whom were shooting .38s so staying with that chambering made for an easy entry into the sport.
A few months after I started shooting, an old friend of mine who now lives a couple of states away decided to join the fun. He asked me for advice about what to buy. I suggested that he first decide what caliber to shoot. I mentioned that .38 Special is the most economical and the easiest to shoot quickly. His response was, "You are probably right but I want to shoot .45 caliber." I said, "So shoot .45 caliber." I have to admit that there is something fun about a single action revolver chambered in .45 Colt.
If historical accuracy is important, note that there were no rifles chambered in .45 Colt in the Old West. If you want revolvers and rifle in the same chambering, and something that would be authentic to the period, I'd recommend the .44-40 or the .38-40. Even better, load 'em with black powder!
Lots of good advice above, some of it from forum members whose opinions I respect very much.
I've been shooting cowboy since early 2010. The "come out to a couple of matches before buying anything" is always good advice.
The bottom line of the "which caliber" issue (much like the "which guns" or "which category" question) is to do what YOU find interesting and enjoyable.
When I got started, I had no suitable firearms but I was set up to load .38/.357 (in fact I had a few hundred lead bullet .38 Special cartridges ready to go). For several months I shared guns with other shooters, most of whom were shooting .38s so staying with that chambering made for an easy entry into the sport.
A few months after I started shooting, an old friend of mine who now lives a couple of states away decided to join the fun. He asked me for advice about what to buy. I suggested that he first decide what caliber to shoot. I mentioned that .38 Special is the most economical and the easiest to shoot quickly. His response was, "You are probably right but I want to shoot .45 caliber." I said, "So shoot .45 caliber." I have to admit that there is something fun about a single action revolver chambered in .45 Colt.
If historical accuracy is important, note that there were no rifles chambered in .45 Colt in the Old West. If you want revolvers and rifle in the same chambering, and something that would be authentic to the period, I'd recommend the .44-40 or the .38-40. Even better, load 'em with black powder!
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I couldn't decide so I bought both, actually I bought 3.
I like the 45 Colt best because, well, it's a 45 Colt. When not shooting a match I shoot the 2X Vaquero's in 38/357 and a Marlin chambered in the same because it's so much cheaper to shoot, even when reloading. After the match I carry the 45 Colt around when not shooting. It also serves as my spare gun. Even though it's not chambered in 38/357 it's not a bag spare since a Ruger RARELY breaks. (don't forget to pack the 45 Colt ammo lol)
Sorry I was really no help...
I like the 45 Colt best because, well, it's a 45 Colt. When not shooting a match I shoot the 2X Vaquero's in 38/357 and a Marlin chambered in the same because it's so much cheaper to shoot, even when reloading. After the match I carry the 45 Colt around when not shooting. It also serves as my spare gun. Even though it's not chambered in 38/357 it's not a bag spare since a Ruger RARELY breaks. (don't forget to pack the 45 Colt ammo lol)
Sorry I was really no help...
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Nobody is making any revolvers or rifles chambered for 32-20 today. Not Colt, not Uberti, not Pietta, not Ruger. So that leaves original Winchester or Marlin rifles chambered for the round and original Colts. Certainly not an option for the budget minded beginner. Secondly, a rifle chambered for 32-20 would be pretty heavy, because of the small bore. Thirdly, I had to wait about six weeks to get some 32-20 brass from Starline because they were out of stock when I needed some for an old S&W Hand Ejector. I don't think I have ever seen any Winchester 32-20 brass on the shelf anywhere. 32-20 brass is nowhere near as readily available as 45 Colt or 38 Special.
Don't get me wrong, I shoot some unusual calibers like 44 Russian in CAS, but I shoot original antiques chambered for that cartridge. I have a Winchester 1873 made in 1887 chambered for 38-40, but frankly, I usually shoot my reproduction 1860 Henry chambered for 44-40 rather than the antique 38-40.
Yes, 32-20 is an authentic caliber of the Old West, but for the reasons I have just listed I can't think of anybody I know who regularly shoots it in CAS.
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Yeah... I have a bunch of .38 Special brass around just from finding it at ranges and whatnot. The stuff is so cheap that you practically can't sell it. It's about as common as gravel.
I've also got a little range pick up .45 Colt that I'm hanging on to until I can get another Uberti 1858 Remington and a .45 Conversion cylinder, but it's nowhere near as common as .38 Special. I only shoot .38 in a revolver right now so I almost never lose any, but I wouldn't shed any tears if I lost a few casings from a lever action in a match. At the very least, if I ever get into CAS, it will be with a .357 rifle. I may go .45 Colt on revolvers or possibly even some mix-and-match combination. I can't see myself ever caring if I win the Durango Cup (or whatever it is that CAS shooters compete for). I just like shooting old-timey guns at stuff, so who gives a turkey if you're packing a .44 Colt Conversion, a .45 Colt Vaquero, and a Marlin .357?
But that's just me.
I've also got a little range pick up .45 Colt that I'm hanging on to until I can get another Uberti 1858 Remington and a .45 Conversion cylinder, but it's nowhere near as common as .38 Special. I only shoot .38 in a revolver right now so I almost never lose any, but I wouldn't shed any tears if I lost a few casings from a lever action in a match. At the very least, if I ever get into CAS, it will be with a .357 rifle. I may go .45 Colt on revolvers or possibly even some mix-and-match combination. I can't see myself ever caring if I win the Durango Cup (or whatever it is that CAS shooters compete for). I just like shooting old-timey guns at stuff, so who gives a turkey if you're packing a .44 Colt Conversion, a .45 Colt Vaquero, and a Marlin .357?
But that's just me.
Thanks for all the info guys. I currently only have a cap and ball remington. And have considered just doing cap and ball. However since you have to have a rifle anyways i want to go with a cartridge revolver. Just less stuff to pack and deal with. I have a bunch of 38spl brass and about 100 lead rounds. Im slowly building up my reloading stuff for it. Actually all i need is a press. So the economical and practical side of me says go with 357. The authentic side of me says go with 45 colt. So im still tore. Lol. This is going to be a hard decision. I know its not a permenant one, but i have very limited income and will only be able to buy once for awhile. This is an expensive sport to get into. Lol
MifflinKid
Member
I've been doing CAS for twenty years shooting .45 Colt and 12 gauge shotgun. For me I wanted to shoot what was shot in the late 1800's at the same power levels. For me, .45 Colt was the way to go from the beginning. I really shoot for myself and against myself. I am not concerned with winning; I focus on shooting better over time.
You wrote you have a limited income. That pretty much makes the .38/.357 path the way you should go. It will be less expensive to buy components. If your goal is to be competitive the lower recoil of .38/.357 rounds will get you there.
If you visit a few matches, ask around to see if anyone has guns they want to sell. Many of us in this game have gone through different equipment over time. I know I have several guns and holsters I used in the past that I would send off to new good homes.
Finally, don't over think this. CAS should be fun.
You wrote you have a limited income. That pretty much makes the .38/.357 path the way you should go. It will be less expensive to buy components. If your goal is to be competitive the lower recoil of .38/.357 rounds will get you there.
It can be but consider buying used not new. Read up on how to check out the condition of used single actions and long guns. Also, don't worry about their exteriors. They are sporting goods and will be dings and scratches over time.
If you visit a few matches, ask around to see if anyone has guns they want to sell. Many of us in this game have gone through different equipment over time. I know I have several guns and holsters I used in the past that I would send off to new good homes.
Finally, don't over think this. CAS should be fun.
Re .32-20:
I had a Uberti SA & a Uberti '73 in the caliber.
The '73 WAS heavy.
You may still be able to order or find a used one of either, if you look hard enough.
When we were setting my wife up for CAS in about 2000, we got her a matched pair of Ruger Vaqueros in .357 Mag, with the intention of shooting .38s.
She found a Marlin in .32-20 that was light & trim, and loves it.
Bought a second one we stumbled across at a gunshow later.
I found, in reloading .38s & .32-20s, that I had to throttle waaaaay back from the standard loads in the manuals for the .32-20s through her Marlins.
The first test batch was actually cratering mild steel targets I have.
No .38 Special load ever fired at those has done that.
Saying current cowboy .38s would be about like the standard .32-20 loads wouldn't be quite accurate.
The .32-20 was a high-stepper, and the loads I was doing for my own guns were zippier than the powder-puff CAS .38s commonly used.
As for heavy rifles, if you can find a used .32-20 Marlin, or wait till Marlin brings them back new, those are light & handy enough for 5'2" females to handle easily, and the bullets are not that expensive.
Just some thoughts.
Denis
I had a Uberti SA & a Uberti '73 in the caliber.
The '73 WAS heavy.
You may still be able to order or find a used one of either, if you look hard enough.
When we were setting my wife up for CAS in about 2000, we got her a matched pair of Ruger Vaqueros in .357 Mag, with the intention of shooting .38s.
She found a Marlin in .32-20 that was light & trim, and loves it.
Bought a second one we stumbled across at a gunshow later.
I found, in reloading .38s & .32-20s, that I had to throttle waaaaay back from the standard loads in the manuals for the .32-20s through her Marlins.
The first test batch was actually cratering mild steel targets I have.
No .38 Special load ever fired at those has done that.
Saying current cowboy .38s would be about like the standard .32-20 loads wouldn't be quite accurate.
The .32-20 was a high-stepper, and the loads I was doing for my own guns were zippier than the powder-puff CAS .38s commonly used.
As for heavy rifles, if you can find a used .32-20 Marlin, or wait till Marlin brings them back new, those are light & handy enough for 5'2" females to handle easily, and the bullets are not that expensive.
Just some thoughts.
Denis
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Since you will be building mostly handgun ammo for both your revolvers and your Carbine I highly suggest buying a Lee Classic Turret Press. Once you get used to using it you can safely make 180 to 200 rounds an hour. It's also strong enough to load rifle ammo, I have loaded a lot of 30-06 and 30-30 ammo on one. I also suggest the Pro Auto-Disk over the regular Auto-Disk. For very little more money you get a much better tool.
You can buy the Press, Dies, Pro Auto-Disk (upgrade at bottom of page), the Safety Primer System and the Auto-Disk Riser in a kit for $219, $234 with the Pro Auto-Disk upgrade.
https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php...facturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41
45 Colt is king and more traditional.
357 (38 spl) is faster for follow-up shots, and cheaper to shoot.
Don't forget 44mag (44 spl) The special is also a classic round.
All three are equally easy to reload.
I have Vaqueros in 357/38, 44, and 32-20 (don't have a 45SA) and a lever action companion for each. You can't go wrong with any of them.
357 (38 spl) is faster for follow-up shots, and cheaper to shoot.
Don't forget 44mag (44 spl) The special is also a classic round.
All three are equally easy to reload.
I have Vaqueros in 357/38, 44, and 32-20 (don't have a 45SA) and a lever action companion for each. You can't go wrong with any of them.
BCRider
Member
FosterEDC, you asked about the costs for .45Colt vs .38Spl.
First off my buddy shoots .45Colt using 200gn bullets. And I load 130gn bullets for both my .38Spl and .357Mag cases to use in my pistols and rifle. I load the two different brass types simply because I've got OODLES of .38 casings but only around 1800 to 2000 .357cases.
Costs won't directly apply since we are up here in Canada and you're in the US. But when it's all said and done his .45Colt rounds were 23 cents each and my rounds were 17 cents. That was around two years ago. Recent primer and powder price increases are edging these figures up by a couple of cents.
We are both shooting the lighter bullets than what is considered "classic" simply because we save around $3 to $4 per 500 for the lower lead cost.
You can figure out the same cost difference for yourself using today's prices. Find the best deals you can and figure on the costs for products landed at your doorstep after purchasing, taxes and delivery. You're looking to add up the costs down to the nearest 1/10th of a cent for the primers, powder and bullet. The brass lasts just shy of forever with cowboy loads. So I'd suggest you simply consider the brass as a "capital cost" instead of including it as "consumables".
First off my buddy shoots .45Colt using 200gn bullets. And I load 130gn bullets for both my .38Spl and .357Mag cases to use in my pistols and rifle. I load the two different brass types simply because I've got OODLES of .38 casings but only around 1800 to 2000 .357cases.
Costs won't directly apply since we are up here in Canada and you're in the US. But when it's all said and done his .45Colt rounds were 23 cents each and my rounds were 17 cents. That was around two years ago. Recent primer and powder price increases are edging these figures up by a couple of cents.
We are both shooting the lighter bullets than what is considered "classic" simply because we save around $3 to $4 per 500 for the lower lead cost.
You can figure out the same cost difference for yourself using today's prices. Find the best deals you can and figure on the costs for products landed at your doorstep after purchasing, taxes and delivery. You're looking to add up the costs down to the nearest 1/10th of a cent for the primers, powder and bullet. The brass lasts just shy of forever with cowboy loads. So I'd suggest you simply consider the brass as a "capital cost" instead of including it as "consumables".
Arkansas Paul
Member
Start casting and the difference will be nearly nil.
I can load 1,000 rounds of .45 Colt for less than $70.
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