.38 HBWC light load suggestions

[velocette]

I'm using 147 gr HBWC bullets in my competition K38 with excellent accuracy using 2.7 gr of Bullseye propellant & Fed SPP. My desire is to load the same bullets as light as I can for target practice in my S&W 640 snubbie. Any suggestions about how light I can safely go with bullseye propellant?

Roger

 

[J-Bar]

I used 2.7 grains of Bullseye under 148 gr. wadcutters in my Model 60. Didn't see any reason to change.

10 yards, elbows rested, otherwise you would see a shaky old man group.

 

[J-Bar]

Just got home to check the loading manuals. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists a range of 2.4 to 3.8 grains of Bullseye under a 148 grain WC. So 2.4 grains is the lowest charge I have in my references.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

If you go real light, don't try to put them out a rifle barrel as they will often stick. Been there, done that. So, I got a bit hotter just so I don't have to be limited to pistol only with mine. Now, if you don't have a 357/38 rifle, that is less of an issue for you.

 

[velocette]

Thank you Jbar, and the longest barrel these will see is my 640's less than 2".

 

[rperyam]

I’ve always used 2.8 grains of Bullseye for my wadcutter loads. Even my grandkids like this load in our J frames. For super light loads that are really accurate I use 2.3 grains of Trail Boss. I’ve still got a few pounds of it, but haven’t seen it anywhere for sale in the last few years.

 

[fxvr5]

I've gone as low as 2.0 grains of Bullseye with a 148 WC seated flush. You'll want to work your way down to that. They might or might not be stable at that low speed.

 

[nofendertom]

Are you saying the 2.7 BE load is too stout for your S&W 640 snubbie?

 

[Show Me]

With titegroup I've been a winner a time or two.

 

[cfullgraf]

Any target level load would be good. Going lower will not reduce recoil perceptively.

If you use the extra low power ammunition in a longer barrel, sticking a bullet in the barrel could be a possibility. I loaded up some 148 gr wadcutters with Titegroup using Hodgdon’s data and the bullets stuck in a 6” barrel 38 Special revolver.

Any way, I’ve shot lots of target lever 148 wadcutter ammunition from my Airweight revolvers and the recoil was quite acceptable. I use those loads when I was working on getting comfortable with the DA trigger on my S&W M642 and M442 revolvers.

 

[fxvr5]

Going lower will not reduce recoil perceptively.

Sure it will. That's the point.

 

[Bush Pilot]

If you go too low you have to watch out for squibs.

 

[cfullgraf]

Sure it will. That's the point.

If you are comparing going lower than target level loads, the reduction in recoil will not be noticeable except for bullets stuck in the barrel. The OP is not talking about reducing loads from high pressure loads but reducing recoil from target level loads.

 

[fxvr5]

If you are comparing going lower than target level loads, the reduction in recoil will not be noticeable except for bullets stuck in the barrel. The OP is not talking about reducing loads from high pressure loads but reducing recoil from target level loads.

The 2.7 grain Bullseye load can be reduced. Lyman's 44th load manual shows a starting point of 2.0 grains of Bullseye for nearly every lead bullet they have data for in the 38 Special. The bullets weigh from 75 grains to 195 grains. I've loaded Zero 148 HBWCs (flush) with 2.0 grains of Bullseye, and they shot just fine. They produced 561 fps from my 4.0" barrel S&W Model 67. Compare that to a 2.7 grain charge which produces around 700 fps from the same gun. The recoil from the 700 fps load produces 1.60 ft lbs of recoil force from my 2.25 lb gun. The same weight bullet at 561 fps produces 1.01 ft lbs of recoil. That's a big difference in recoil.

Also, Hornady shows a start charge of 2.1 grains of Bullseye with their 148 grain HBWC. They show a speed of 550 fps from their 4" barrel S&W Model 15. Our data is pretty close.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I'm using 147 gr HBWC bullets in my competition K38 with excellent accuracy using 2.7 gr of Bullseye propellant & Fed SPP. My desire is to load the same bullets as light as I can for target practice in my S&W 640 snubbie. Any suggestions about how light I can safely go with bullseye propellant?

Roger

With a soft lead, wax-lubed, conical skirted HBWC, 550fps at the muzzle is the basement. Stay above that to keep the pressure high enough for the skirt to expand and grab the rifling. If your bullet is a tin-lead alloy, keep the ratio above 30:1 for softer and if it is COWW, test the hardness to make sure you’re below 10BHN. At 2.0gr of Bullseye you will probably see keyholing from low pressure; at 2.2-2.3gr you may see groups worth shooting but your distance will be limited - that should put you in the 620-650fps range, good for 20yds, maybe.
I’ve shot plenty of swaged antimonial lead HBWC with 2.3gr out of Chief’s Specials and Dick’s Specials over the years with very good results but you can see the bullet in flight at 25yds. They won’t always make it through three layers of backing cardboard.

 

[velocette]

Many thanks to all. My HBWCs are all soft lead and lubed with Lee liquid Alox.
Will start out with 2.3 gr of BE & evaluate. Intended purpose is 7 yds in my club's "tunnel". Velocity is unimportant as long as the bullet will penetrate the paper target.
Getting ready for a possible "BUG" match after my club's monthly combat pistol match.

 

[GooseGestapo]

The slower you go, the higher they’ll impact.
Below 2.0gr of Bullseye, you’ll start getting incomplete burns and lots of “old maids” which can get under your extractor and jam the cylinder when you try to close it.
I say this as you said you intend to shoot competitions with it. 2.5-2.7gr will give you the best performance.

 

[Soupy44]

In BE circles I've heard as low as 2.0gr BE, your results may vary. Most stories are around 2.3-2.4gr BE.

 

[murf]

Out of 357 mag cases, .358" bullet dia., 4.625" bbl. length:

Lots of tears in the target, not keyholing. no squibs.

fwiw,

murf