38+p vs 357mag

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BOOM-BOOM

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I made a couple of searches here and couldn't find anything on this topic..

My question is this. How much closer is a 38+P to a 357mag then a reg .38

Also can you reload a 38 casing to match that of a 357 mag. load and shoot it safely from a 38 revolver rated for +P ammo?
 
According to the Accurate #2 manual,
.38 Special - 17,000 psi
.38 Special +P - 18,500 psi
.357 Magnum - can be either the old standard of 45,000 CUP or the new 35,000 psi. From what I remember 45k CUP is approximately 42,000 psi.

You could physically load a .357 charge into a .38 case but I wouldn't recommend shooting it from anything. It is likely to have higher pressure than a .357 because of the smaller volume of the .38 case.
 
And a 38 rated gun would go KABOOM in your hand more than likely from the pressure being almost double

If you want to shoot 38, 38+P, and 357, buy the 357
 
Also can you reload a 38 casing to match that of a 357 mag. load and shoot it safely from a 38 revolver rated for +P ammo?

That would result in a bad day for you and your gun.

I would not even do this with a 357 revolver. I have heard of 38 double charge rounds kabooming 357s.
 
Also can you reload a 38 casing to match that of a 357 mag. load and shoot it safely from a 38 revolver rated for +P ammo?
S&W made a .38 Special on a large frame back before .357 Magnum was invented. It was called a .38-44 Outdoorsman, and if you have one you can safely shoot hotrodded .38 Specials in it that will approach .357 Magnum performance. You could even buy factory ammo loaded like that once upon a time.

Other than that exception, it's a really bad idea because they will ruin your gun -- perhaps spectacularly (use your imagination), or perhaps just wear it out over a short time.

One more thing: You said "reload a 38 casing to match that of a 357 mag" Be aware that it takes less powder in a .38 Special case to match the pressure in a .357 case. If you stuff load data for a .357 into a .38 case without taking that into account, you might very well blow up a strong gun chambered for .357
 
Ok thank you all for your advice...

I never realized the mag. was more then twice that of 38+P..

thanks again guys.
 
you can kaboom a .357 Magnum? We were just talking about that at the range today when I was laughing at my son for asking if a round could blow up my SP101. I don't think anything could kaboom that thing.. nuclear warhead excluded of course
 
you can kaboom a .357 Magnum? We were just talking about that at the range today when I was laughing at my son for asking if a round could blow up my SP101. I don't think anything could kaboom that thing.. nuclear warhead excluded of course
Completely fill the case with AA#5 and crimp your favorite bullet in place. Pull the trigger with a Looooong string from behind a big sturdy tree. (I don't have my ballistics software here at work, but the pressure should be well over 100kpsi.)
 
FWIW, I once tried loading .38 Special cases to about 40000 psi (estimated) and was shooting them in a SAA with thick chamber walls. I got case head separations. Not overly dangerous, but a PITA, and it ruined the brass of course. It could have been dangerous if I'd shot them in a rifle. The big problem was I didn't do a proper load work-up, I started right at the top. Also I was using Blue Dot powder (this was before the warning), which didn't help.
 
you can kaboom a .357 Magnum? We were just talking about that at the range today when I was laughing at my son for asking if a round could blow up my SP101.
Easily.

Fire a squib round where the slug get's lodged in the barrel.
Pull the trigger and fire a second round.

KABOOM!
 
If you're using a .357, you can load .38 Special cases with .357 powder charges if you seat the bullet to the same overall length as the .357. In other words, you have as much space inside the case from the base of the bullet to the web as you would have in a .357.
 
There is some fairly solid evidence that the web of .357 Magnum cases are thicker than the web of .38 Special cases. If that be the case, there are at least two factors at work: the strength of the gun AND the strength of the brass.

So, I wonder what would happen if you trimmed .357 Magnum cases to .38 Special length, and loaded the modified cases to 40,000 PSI, and fired them in a sturdy revolver - say something like a Ruger Security Six?

Look, don't get cute with the .38
Overloading it will probably make it hit off point of aim anyway.
If you need something more than a 158-grain bullet at 950 feet per second, you might as well skip the what-ifs, and move up to a rifle so that the job gets done right.
 
You can KB any gun with enough pressure. I've seen a couple Rugers in person with blown cylinders and heard about a several others.

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If you're using a .357, you can load .38 Special cases with .357 powder charges if you seat the bullet to the same overall length as the .357. In other words, you have as much space inside the case from the base of the bullet to the web as you would have in a .357.

Vern is absolutely correct. Skeeter Skelton was doing this for quite some time, His famous load consisted of 13.5gr of 2400 with a Lyman #358156 bullet seated and crimped in the first crimp groove. Of course Skeeter was doing this because .357 brass was hard to come by in those days which is no longer a problem today. A lot of folks prcticed this with no inccidents when fired in a .38-44 or .357 magnum. It seems that common sense was common back in the day as compared to today.

Also the SAAMI spec for the .38 SPL +P is not 18,500 PSI. That may be what a lot of todays factory loads are loaded to due to litigious reasons. If anyone is in disbelif of this fact then read through the following Speer 135gr .38 SPL +P data Spec sheet. Read page #9.

As to the OP question .38SPL +P is still quite a ways from matching the .357. The one and only caveat to this however is Buffal Bores .38 SPL +P heavy ammo. This is the only ammunition that I know of that comes remotely close.
 

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The pressure limit for .38Spl +P is 20,000psi, not 18,500.

Thank you Craig I forgot to add that. The 21,500 PSI is the Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) that .38 SPL +P ammunition is not to be exceeded as set by SAAMI.
 
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Why do so many people want to go around for the rest of their life being called "Lefty"?

You speak of loading a case intended for 20,000psi +/- and loading it to 40,000psi +/-.

Even if it dosen't kaboom in the gun you use it in, the future is an unknown. That partial box of Hiroshima loads might be picked up by a friend/relative/shooting buddy or whomever and loaded into a not so robust gun that comes un-glued big time.

If your 38 isn't giving you the horsepower you want in a handgun trade it in for a 357. If you want small, the Smith model 60 should work for you and be far safer than the alternative.


But...it's your hands and eyes, not mine.
 
You speak of loading a case intended for 20,000psi +/- and loading it to 40,000psi +/-.
Why not? The cases can handle it. I've loaded standard .38 brass with 1350fps .38-44 loads 20 times without a failure.

It's the only way to load an original .38-44 to its potential. Not to mention .38Spl Colt SAA's and replicas.

It's the only way to utilize the 173gr Keith bullet in some .357's due to cylinder length.

Education is the key. It is only a safe practice in certain guns, including any .357. Due diligence precludes loading of extra heavy loads in inappropriate revolvers. As with anything in this world, if you know what you're doing and abide by proven practices, it is as safe as anything else.
 
Why do so many people want to go around for the rest of their life being called "Lefty"?

You speak of loading a case intended for 20,000psi +/- and loading it to 40,000psi +/-.

Even if it dosen't kaboom in the gun you use it in, the future is an unknown. That partial box of Hiroshima loads might be picked up by a friend/relative/shooting buddy or whomever and loaded into a not so robust gun that comes un-glued big time.

If your 38 isn't giving you the horsepower you want in a handgun trade it in for a 357. If you want small, the Smith model 60 should work for you and be far safer than the alternative.


But...it's your hands and eyes, not mine.

Loading .38 SPL near (.38-44 levels) .357 Magnum levels is NOT going to make a .357 magnum revolver go Kaboom. Take notice I said near and not duplicate. I think that this is where a lot of the confusion begins. Using the same logic is like saying that loading a strong revolver (S&W M24 & 624, ruger Black Hawk) in .44 SPL to 1200fps (.44 mag territory) with a 250gr bullet is also a hand grenade waiting to go off. C' mon folks wake up and use the gray matter betwixt yur ears for crying out loud.

Elmer Keith's famous heavy .44 SPL which consists of his 250gr SWC load which paved the way for the .44 magnum was tested at Whites labratory. Whites Lab found his heavy .44 SPL load to only produce 25,000 PSI. Keith and Phil Sharpe were both reponsible to some degree in helping with the .38-44 loads. .38-44 level loads were tested as generating around 30,000 PSI. So tell me how the above loads are going to blow up a .357, .38-44, or a .44 magnum?

After the development of the .38-44 S&W and the above two men mentioned realized that a bit more could be squeezed from the big S&W N frames. Through more testing 5 years later the .357 was unveiled by S&W. Of course the .357 had a bit more performance than the .38-44 there fore the case was legthened to prevent it from chambering in the older guns, the rest as they say is history. However S&W used specially heat treated .38-44 Heavy Duty and Outdoors mans revolvers for this which later became the famed Model 27. Folks need to do a little more research on this before regurgitating internet hersay and rumours. And of course none of the above ammunition should be fired in a S&W M10, 15, 64, 67 or the charter arms Bull Dog for the .44 SPL EVER.

Brian Peace did an article a few years back on the .38-44 for the handloader magazine. If you can get a copy of it most here will be very enlightened by the performance of the .38-44. All loads were tested and found to be with in safe (30,000 PSI) operating pressures and under the operating pressure of the .357 magnum. This is one of the main reasons that the Ray Thompson designed 358156 bullet was so popular and still is. It has two crimp grooves. The first crimp groove is to be used for .38-44 level loads using .38 SPL brass. When so crimped the case capacity is close to that of the .357 magnum. When so crimped you can safely use 13.5gr of 2400 for 1250 fps. One can even use 13gr of 2400 with a Speer Gold Dot 158gr bullet crimped in the cannalure for 1091fps. Notice these loads are closer to medium .357 magnum performance but not an exact duplicate of true .357 performance. Again these loads are for use only in PROPERLY designed revolvers. The second crimp groove is for using the bullet for .357 magnum loads and regular .38 SPL and .38 +P loads.

One would have to be completely off his rocker though to try and dump 15.5gr of 2400 in a .38 SPl case and cap it off with a 158gr bullet, that is a true .357 magnum load. This is where in fact I believe the misconceptions and rumours begin. Such a load would then most certainly be overpressure and dangerous as it is a whole two grains more powder in the smaller case, you do the math. The .38-44 loads are obviously a hanloaders proposition today. And due to the fact that all guns are not created equally one needs to start low and slowly work their way up if one is so inclined to try out .38-44 level loads.

Again folks do some research and use common sense before jumping in with both feet.

Here is some good reading on the subject. Take note of Skeeter Skelton's medium .357 loads. These are put up in .38 SPL cases for the first two sets of data, take note of the powder charges and what I just wrote about the .38-44 and compare to the real .357 data below that. Again this is where I feel the confusion stems from. be safe and shoot straight.

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=30

http://www.sixguns.com/range/Mademag.htm
 
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Loading .38 SPL near (.38-44 levels) .357 Magnum levels is NOT going to make a .357 magnum revolver go Kaboom.

I didn't say it would make a .357 revolver go Kaboom.

I do say that it could make a 38 Special revolver go Kaboom if you loaded your hot-rodded 38s' into one not so robust as your test platform apparently was.
 
I didn't say it would make a .357 revolver go Kaboom.

I do say that it could make a 38 Special revolver go Kaboom if you loaded your hot-rodded 38s' into one not so robust as your test platform apparently was.
If you load your hot .38 Specials to the same overall length as a .357 round, you have no worry about loading them into a less robust revolver. They won't chamber because the bullet will hang up in the throat.
 
If you load your hot .38 Specials to the same overall length as a .357 round, you have no worry about loading them into a less robust revolver. They won't chamber because the bullet will hang up in the throat.

Are you sure? I am pretty sure my J frame has a .357 length cylinder. It's enough different from my Taurus 38 that the holster fit is just a shade different. I thought I read that S&W had switched all J frames to the 357 size to cut manufacturing costs.
 
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