why 38spl+P instead of .357mag?

[-eaux-]

help me understand, please.
why would you worry so about picking out a revolver rated for .38spl+p when you could have any number of weapons chambered for .357mag that will plink with light 38's or go loaded-for-bear with the hottest .357's?
please justify to me the usefulness of .38+P. isn't the .357mag the answer to "wish i had a hotter .38" in the first place?

 

[Walkalong]

This thread might be of interest.

Most shooters have and enjoy both .38's and .357's. I had a .38 first, then got a .357, but these days I shoot mostly downloaded .357 stuff using .357 cases in my .357 guns, as well as my .38 Spl guns.

Welcome to THR

 

[-eaux-]

Welcome to THR

thank you, walkalong, and thanks for the link.

 

[GRIZ22]

+P pressures are no where near a 357 Magnum (18.5K vs 35K). Most of the people carrying 357s in a J frame (an ultralight one in particular) are fooling themselves carrying 357. Maybe 90% of the shooters who do so can't really control that 357 in a small gun. Many older J frame size guns are not rated for +P, most newer ones are.

If you are talking just power yes the 357 is the "hottest 38" but if you put controlability in the mix a +P gives you a lot more control and a little bigger bite than a standard 38. There is not a lot of difference in power in a 2" barrel comparing 357 and 38 +P.

 

[-eaux-]

good take on the question, thanks.
as far as applicable experience, i shoot my wife's snubby SP101 regularly with bigboy .357 winchester silvertips, and i PERSONALLY find the recoil sharp yet completely manageable. she feels the same. it is a blast to shoot with .38's.
my dad carries a little smith with a 4" or so barrel that is rated for standard 38's. i'm just really not a fan of S&W revolvers. before you beat me up, i have no gripes other than they don't fit my hand. they're fine pieces of machinery, just not for me. my hand fits a Ruger.

 

[dkk73]

Always an interesting discussion.

I would add that if you really for some reason want .357 power in a smaller gun, consider the 357SIG, which is designed to achieve similar ballistics out of a short barrel. Great round in many ways, and very underrated.

As for me, I went with a 38+P (SW 442... enormous utility).

ETA: And the standard .357 wheelgun load is predicated on a longer barrel to get it's acceleration.... Ie. a short barrel .357 revolver load will generate a big bang but it's not clear if it will go into accelerating the bullet, esp. out of a 1 7/8" bbl.

 

[-eaux-]

thanks for the input.
i ask because i am intrigued by the .38+p in the same way i am by the .357sig and the .40S&W.
i personally work within the confines of the tried-and-true loads that i was raised on. the .38spl, the .357mag, the .45acp, the .44mag.
i am truly curious as to what the merits are of the newer loadings that "mimic the ______"
if the "ballistics are so similar to _________", why not just use ______?

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

as far as applicable experience, i shoot my wife's snubby SP101 regularly with bigboy .357 winchester silvertips ...

IMO this is about the lightest practical revolver for .357 Mag. loads. Lightweight revolvers are better off in .38 Spl. There is little point in chambering them for .357 if it is not going to be actually used.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

One reason for buying a .38 Special +P revolver instead of a .357 Magnum revolver is price. If you are going to use only .38 Special ammo like most shooters do then there's really no reason to pay all that extra money for the Magnum revolver.

A good reason for shooting .38 Special +P ammo instead of .357 Magnum ammo indoors is the "flash-bang" effect. A .357 Magnum round is VERY loud when fired in a small confined space like a bedroom or a hallway. The flash produced by a Magnum round is also considerably larger than that of a .38 Special.

Those are two very good reasons I can think of right off the bat...

 

[Fiv3r]

What ArchAngel said

I habitually carry a heavy 4" barrel .357 on my person. However, most days it's loaded with some .38 special +P ammo. I actually enjoy shooting full on .357 over any of the .38 ammo. However...that's with ear and eye protection. While the .38 spec is going to still be painfully loud in an SD situation, it's not going to be deafeningly loud nor nearly as bright of a flash.

The powerful .357 has its place for sure. Anytime I'm heading to the woods where I might run into something bigger/stronger/more dangerous than a coyote, .357 with a good amount of thump is loaded up.

 

[GRIZ22]

i shoot my wife's snubby SP101 regularly with bigboy .357 winchester silvertips, and i PERSONALLY find the recoil sharp yet completely manageable.

At 26 oz the SP101 is about the most manageable small frame gun. I used to carry a S&W 640 (23 oz) and while I could still max the qualification course it was not really fun to shoot. I usually carried it with +P+ which afforded a lot more control. The ultra light 10-12 oz revolvers are brutal even with 38 +P. I'd rather carry a heavier gun that's easier to control.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree Griz but I must admit, my M640 just loves 145gr Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum ammo.

 

[scythefwd]

if the "ballistics are so similar to _________", why not just use ______?
__________________

9 rounds instead of 5-7 in a slimmer profile gun. Probably isn't lighter, but it will probably be more accurate than a 1 7/8 in barrel as well (specifically speaking of the .357 sig here) since most semi-autos have a longer barrel. Add to that the softer kick by use of a spring/buffer (the slide) and I can see the lure.

 

[snooperman]

I agree with what ArchAngelCD said

The .357 magnum is extremely loud inside of a building and the flash at night can be blinding for a while. I carry +P in my Ruger SP101 on a night stand and it is effective if proper shot placement is made. I also carry Gold Dot in my Colt detective for conceal carry and feel it is adequate. At age 69 I do not need any more bang to be effective. Practice and shot placement has proven time and again that it is more important than bullet size or magnum firepower.

 

[jad0110]

Others have covered their preference for 38 Special in the very small guns. So I'll touch on the service-sized revolvers.

With good 38 Special loads, you get more than adequate penetration combined with a very soft shooting gun (such as the 4" Model 10, 15, 64, 67, etc). Follow up shots are a breeze, and I find that I can shoot a .38 Revolver (or a .357 loaded with .38s) faster and more accurately than a 1911.

To each his own, however.

 

[jfh]

There's good commentary in this thread.

like -eaux-, I shot Silvertips in my SP101. When I got my 640 and M&P340 I preferred the GDSB 135-gr. 38+Ps, and tried the GDSB 135-gr. 357s for daily carry in the M&P 340. Then I shifted to the Rem SP12s (158-gr., 800 FPS)--and that lead me down Walkalong's path.

A 158-gr. round running about 900 fps from a 2" barrel is about the biggest round I want to shoot from a lightweight. That spec is too big for today's 38 Special standards, even CIP pressures. It is, of course, easy to build in a 357, with any number of powders.

So, I wish Remington would build a downloaded round like that, if only to make it available to non-reloaders.

Jim H.

 

[Nicodemus38]

-softer recoil with less muzzleblast for MOST commercial ammo
-many people are afraid of litigation and believe the internet 'fact' that goes like this:
if you use a gun for a self defense shooting and the barrel has the word magnum on it, the court system will do its utmost to prosecute you as an evil trigger happy vigilante wacko as only that type of person would carry a "magnum" for self defense, ie want to be dirty harry or a certain architect in death wish

 

[dkk73]

...
ii am truly curious as to what the merits are of the newer loadings that "mimic the ______"
if the "ballistics are so similar to _________", why not just use ______?

This was implicitly answered by someone else, but I meant to be clearer in my original post and address this head-on:

The 357SIG is designed to produce similar exterior ballistics out of a short barreled auto as the .357mag does out of a mid- or longer-barreled revolver.

Different pressure curves, etc.

For a CCW purpose, this is potentially pretty useful. I will say it is a bit snappy in a small gun (e.g. Glock 27/33) but IMHO more pleasant than the .40 (with which it shares many similarities in size, available guns, etc... It's a barrel swap for many).

HTH,
Dave

 

[sonier]

If you can handle a 357 magnum in a small frame pistol, and dont mind etra cost. .38 carries no other advantages.
if you cant handle a 357 mag small frame pistol or dont have extra 100 bucks then grab a .38 if your desperate nough

 

[MrFox]

Desperate enough? I shoot my 6 inch 357 mag enough to know that in my snub, I want 38s. Now, I do carry +Ps, but they aren't even close to what a snub 357 would be. I've even turned down the opportunity to shoot a snub 357.

If you are really worried about it, don't carry a 38. It's that easy. If I could carry my Trooper, I would. It just doesn't fit in my pocket as well.

For my needs, a six round 38 snub is enough and I don't feel I need the extra mag action (I also sometimes carry a CZ82, for what thats worth, I don't ever feel under gunned).

 

[amd6547]

There is nothing wrong with selecting +P 38 spl for SD. I often keep my Model 15 handy, and don't feel undergunned at all.
But, my favorite handgun right now is a Ruger SP101 with 3" barrel. I load with Doubletap 357mag 125gn Bonded Core JHP's. I have no problem with the recoil or controllability.

 

[sonier]

some people can handle the 357 mag in snubs others cant. dont feel bad. its jsut like some can carry a heavy revolver camping, but others cant stand the weight. some prefer to keep there guns very concealed. while others prefer to open carry when they can. theres so many variables.
a 38 special fits some people well
a 357 mag fits some people well

I dont mind carrying any weight revovler on my farm. or horseback riding, or hiking.
but thats me

 

[kmrcstintn]

I'll keep it short & sweet...try to shoot one of the ultralight .357 mag snubbies with .357 mag ammo and you'll understand why .38 spl +p is a better idea; your hands-n-wrists will thank you...as well as your ears and eyes

 

[txoilman]

bang vs boom

It only took a couple of 357's without ear muffs to convince me to switch to 38+P indoors for home defense. If outdoors, in a car or in a big building, I switch to 145 silvertips for the big boomer effect on both ends .