.38 S&W defense ammo from BB is imminent!

[LouisianaMan]

Many of you have read about my amateur experimentation with the .38 S&W, aka .38 Colt New Police, .38/200, .38 S&W "Short," etc. Many of us have shared tales of woe caused by the unavailability of anything resembling defense ammo for our otherwise serviceable solid-frame guns.

Good news! Within the next month, Buffalo Bore is bringing out two loads to fill that bill. Tim Sundlies of BB describes them as good, powerful loads. Guess I'll finally be able to load my guns with factory ammo! Can't wait to see what they've come up with. Will certainly try some and compare to my various handloads, and will try to post a range report.

No personal involvement with the project, just looking forward to trying it.

 

[Deaf Smith]

If so, I have a Colt Police .38 stamped 'Chase Manhattan Bank' and a Webley pocket model in .38 S&W I'd love to see what it could really do for SD.

I bet BBs load gets a 150gr SWC .360 sized slug at maybe 800 from a 4 inch barrel.

Deaf

 

[LouisianaMan]

While we're speculating, I'll guess:

(1) 135g GDHP at 860 from 4" barrel; possibly a 125g LHP similar to, but more powerful than(?), the Federal Nyclad Chief's Special load (upon "mature reflection," I'll call this option less likely than 2 and 3 below).

(2) 148g hardcast WC at 800-900 from 4" barrel.

(3) 180-200g hardcast LFP @ 700-750 with tapered ogive which will chamber in Colts as well as S&W's, and allow owners of Victories, Enfields, and Webleys to "shoot to the sights."

Not taking bets, though!

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

Double post!

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

Excellent!

Now I will just need a gun that these won't deconstruct upon firing.

 

[Old Fuff]

Keep in mind that Colt revolvers, the Police Positive in particular, have bore groove diameters as tight as .355", and chamber throats at .358". If BB is using jacketed bullets as large as .360" combined with a high end load of powder they're might be problems.

 

[jmfc606]

Only 38 S&W I have is an old H&R top-break. I WON'T be shooting these! LOL. I stick with the ones you can see flying down range when you shoot them. You know the real fast 500fps babies.

 

[hovercat]

My old Lyman manual lists some max loads. All cast, from a 4" S&W

133gr 1041 fps
150gr 973fps

The only reason factory ammo is so weak is because some fool will not read the box and put a heavy round in a top break.

 

[Jim Watson]

I note that BB's effort at a Combat .32 S&W Long has a full wadcutter at the highest speed attainable with carefully selected powder at SAAMI psi. Probably the same trick with .38 S&W.

Let's say they crank the .38 S&W up to .38 Special standard velocity performance.

I saw a reference to a lady who liked the manageability of .38 S&W. A heavy load .38 S&W will be no easier to manage than a Special, probably less so in the smaller gun.

I doubt you will be firing many of these what with the cost and kick, but I wonder about gun durability. They claim to keep pressure within SAAMI, so it isn't going to blow up. But the recoil is going to bounce the working parts around harder, and I would worry about breakage.

 

[Old Fuff]

... but I wonder about gun durability. They claim to keep pressure within SAAMI, so it isn't going to blow up. But the recoil is going to bounce the working parts around harder, and I would worry about breakage.

That, and they're no revolvers around that don't date from decades past. If you do break something parts to fix (whatever) may be hard to come by.

I have no qualms about shooting .38 Special level loads in S&W K-frame Victory models or Colt Police Positives, and British Webley and Enfield revolvers should be good to go, but after this short list of candidates I don't see any others where I would chose hotter-then-regular loads.

It would be nice to have a better choice of fodder for the above mentioned revolvers, but BB ammunition is not priced for Sunday afternoon plinkers, and these days very few people use them in a personal defense context.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

Fuff,

Do you think there is no possibility in seeing a new gun designed around .38S&W?

If you think about it, with the popularity of CCW having increased so much over the last 20-30 years, it could be said that the market for a shorter .38 caliber cartridge is there.

It would be quite easy for Taurus to chamber their M380UL in .38S&W. The combination of a smaller-than-J-frame carry gun with the ability to throw 146-160gr lead hollowpoints at a respectable 800 FPS (likely you could do much better even) sounds pretty good to me.

 

[Old Fuff]

Federal introduced a rimmed version of the 9mm x 19 (Luger) some years ago and it flopped because none of the revolver manufacturers was willing to chamber it in anything but their regular .38 Special snubbie platforms.

I personally would like to see new revolvers cartridges in .32, /.38 / .40 and .44 that were not based on black powder cartridges that have far more powder capacity then is needed now; but I suspect future developments are going to be targeted toward pistols rather then revolvers.

That said, Taurus might experiment by going backwards in the direction of the .38 Short Colt because it uses .358 diameter bullets that are easily obtainable. The hang-up on .38 S&W is the odd-ball .360 - .361 size. At the moment I'm watching to see if their .380 ACP revolver is successful, that might give an indication about the commercial possibilities of shorter revolver cartridges.

 

[Jim Watson]

I wonder about reverse compatibility.
One reason given for the discontinuance of the 9mm Federal/Charter was that it would go in a .38 S&W and subject a 12,000 psi gun to 35,000 psi.

How about 8mm, 9.5mm, and 11mm Short Nitro?

 

[Salmoneye]

Keep in mind that Colt revolvers, the Police Positive in particular, have bore groove diameters as tight as .355", and chamber throats at .358". If BB is using jacketed bullets as large as .360" combined with a high end load of powder they're might be problems.

Exactly!

I have pulled bullets from Winchester and Remington factory S&W, and they both were 'heeled', and mic'ed at .354"...They are dead soft, and designed to 'slug up' to whatever bore they are fired in...

I will be interested to see what BB comes out with...

 

[MagnumDweeb]

For well built guns I want to see a 200 Grain JHP (or SJHP) that goes at 750 fps. Hopefully a Webley revolver could handle this load.

For for weakly built guns, a 142 grain WC at 800 fps. It'd barely go faster than a .454 (for .44 cal cap and ball revolvers) that weighs in at 142 grains. Still it would be effective.

 

[velocette]

Great! now I can conceal carry my S&W first model aka "Baby Russian"
& fear no-one. (NOT!)
(Revolver since being photographed fitted with its correct grips)

 

[kBob]

A buddy that carried a S&W Terrier for a bit in the '70's worked up loads with a commercial swaged 148 grain HBWC loaded backwards. Was not very accurate beyond ten or twelve yards but expanded in wet pack.

-kBob

 

[Agsalaska]

Federal introduced a rimmed version of the 9mm x 19 (Luger) some years ago and it flopped because none of the revolver manufacturers was willing to chamber it in anything but their regular .38 Special snubbie platforms.

I personally would like to see new revolvers cartridges in .32, /.38 / .40 and .44 that were not based on black powder cartridges that have far more powder capacity then is needed now; but I suspect future developments are going to be targeted toward pistols rather then revolvers.

That said, Taurus might experiment by going backwards in the direction of the .38 Short Colt because it uses .358 diameter bullets that are easily obtainable. The hang-up on .38 S&W is the odd-ball .360 - .361 size. At the moment I'm watching to see if their .380 ACP revolver is successful, that might give an indication about the commercial possibilities of shorter revolver cartridges.

I would too. But I think after 45gap and 327fed more or less failed there is not much of an appetite right now.