.38 S&W vs. .38Spl

mcb said:
Remington still loads 38 S&W commercially. A few other companies do also but from my testing the Remington is the best of the current ammo. Its a great place to start since it a very mild load to test out your new gun and would give you a nice supply of good brass to reload if you decide to go down that path. I bought a whole case of it a few years ago on sale to feed my Iver Johnson and Webley MkIV.
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I looked on line, the Remington’s and Winchester’s, when you can find them, go for almost $50/box.

I can get PPU from AIM Surplus for $27.95/box. You can probably figure which direction I’m going.

Looking up Remington, Winchester, PPU, Fiocchi, Magtec, etc, aside from Buffalo Bore which warns against using their ammo in break tops, they are all loaded with 145 or 146g bullets to 675 fps.
 
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Jim Watson said:
Sometimes; a .38 S&W cartridge on the small side of the tolerance range can be shot in a .38 Special chamber on the large side of tolerances. I have seen them both ways.
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That is exactly what happened in this Paul Harrell video.

He tried .38 S&W Winchester and Remington ammo in revolvers by several manufacturers. The Winchester would not fit any of the guns, the Remington fit some Rugers and all the S&W’s.

 
Walkalong said:
148 Gr?
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I guess if the bullet diameter fits the bore, they should work great. I believe the RNL bullets my Grandfather had in his old S&W were 146 gr.

The odd bore size has always been the reason I haven’t gone the .38 S&W route. I just stuck with the .38 Spl/.357 Mag even back when you could buy .38 S&W factory rounds for less than .75 a shot. (I guess it’s not really much of a hurdle, since I reload anyway.)

Good luck with your new revolver. :thumbup: Let us know how it shoots when you get a chance.

Stay safe.
 
The .38 S&W cartridge is older, shorter and fatter than the .38 Special
The reverse analogy would be saying the 9mm Makarov is newer and fatter rhan the .380 ACP.

I have reloaded less than 100 .38 S&W cases using .38 Special reloading equipment.
Even after sizing the .38 S&W casings in a .38 Special die only 1 of the bunch would actually fit in my .38's largest chamber.

The .38 Special cartridge was developed from the .38 Long Colt cartridge
A .38 Special revolver will chamber .38 Short Colt and .38 Long Colt cartridges.
If a .38 Spl revolver will chamber a .38 S&W the case is undersized or the chamber is oversized.
 
ok
Carl N. Brown said:
The .38 S&W cartridge is older, shorter and fatter than the .38 Special
The reverse analogy would be saying the 9mm Makarov is newer and fatter rhan the .380 ACP.

I have reloaded less than 100 .38 S&W cases using .38 Special reloading equipment.
Even after sizing the .38 S&W casings in a .38 Special die only 1 of the bunch would actually fit in my .38's largest chamber.

The .38 Special cartridge was developed from the .38 Long Colt cartridge
A .38 Special revolver will chamber .38 Short Colt and .38 Long Colt cartridges.
If a .38 Spl revolver will chamber a .38 S&W the case is undersized or the chamber is oversized.
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Some guy in Florida told me once… You bought a $1500 Mauser and can’t scrap up $45 for the right dies!

38 S&W lee dies are like $43 on midway, $7 more dollars and they ship to your door FREE
 
One of my favorite loads is a 150 gr. DEWC over a max load of W231. Good, acurate load in my 38/357 revolvers and is often loaded in my 2" 38 Special house gun...
 
There’s really not a right answer to the original question. Yes, loading 38sw with 38spl dies and bullets can be done because I have done it. Didn’t work all that well, but it got some old iron back into the habit of making noise. What’s being made though really is a no-name cartridge that’s kinda similar to 38 short colt (I think, will verify) but because it’s a different diameter that makes it kinda different even though it will fire safely enough provided you don’t overload your mystery ammunition.
 
Walkalong said:
At that price……….
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Alright, just pick up the last one, and also pick up some Berry’s .357 148 Hollow base Full Waddcutter! going to make some of those .38 Special Cool looking ammo and see if it will run in 38 S&W

A9DA2694-EEFC-4330-9DD6-A3C9D05B6467.png AC30C135-71DF-4E2F-B120-B238762AFD64.jpeg
 
My plan is to inspect the break top revolver I just won and determine, when it arrives, if it is in fireable condition.

If so, I‘ll buy a box of PPU for $27.95 from AIM and try them out. If all goes welI, i.e., I still have 10 fingers, I’ll buy the Lee carbide reloading kit in .38 S&W.

At that point I’ll at least have some cases to reload.
 
Speedo66 said:
My plan is to inspect the break top revolver I just won and determine, when it arrives, if it is in fireable condition.

If so, I‘ll buy a box of PPU for $27.95 from AIM and try them out. If all goes welI, i.e., I still have 10 fingers, I’ll buy the Lee carbide reloading kit in .38 S&W.

At that point I’ll at least have some cases to reload.
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they have 2 S&W 38 break tops for sale at my local! very cheap becuse most of the nickel is gone. But, I’m already invested into 38 S&W, so I might be right behind you
 
Speedo66 said:
My plan is to inspect the break top revolver I just won and determine, when it arrives, if it is in fireable condition.

If so, I‘ll buy a box of PPU for $27.95 from AIM and try them out. If all goes welI, i.e., I still have 10 fingers, I’ll buy the Lee carbide reloading kit in .38 S&W.

At that point I’ll at least have some cases to reload.
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👍 Good plan.
 
Speedo66 said:
My plan is to inspect the break top revolver I just won and determine, when it arrives, if it is in fireable condition.

If so, I‘ll buy a box of PPU for $27.95 from AIM and try them out. If all goes welI, i.e., I still have 10 fingers, I’ll buy the Lee carbide reloading kit in .38 S&W.

At that point I’ll at least have some cases to reload.
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I know the price tag of the Rem/Win ammo is harsh but at least in my experience all my PPU 38 S&W brass was un-reloadable. It's currently in my scrap brass bucket with all the other bad brass. When I first got my Iver Johnson I bought several boxes of PPU and Magtech 38 S&W from Aim Surplus to try out the "new" gun. When I started reloading 38/200 for the Webley MkIV I got a bit later, using that brass the resulting reloads using PPU brass would not chamber. Investigation showed the PPU brass is very thick. The PPU measures ~.014 at the mouth where the Remington and Magtech only measured .012 thick at the mouth. That difference proved fatal when loading proper .361 diameter bullets. I suspect I could have loaded .357 diameter bullet in the PPU brass and it might have worked or at least chambered but that seemed silly in light of having the proper diameter bullets and brass (Magtech and Remington) that did work well with that proper bullet. YMMV
 
Pressure goes up real fast in those small cases with 148/158 Gr bullets. I ruined some cases (Over expanded them near the rim) working up loads.

Go easy with the fast powders you'll be using. Increase in .1 increments.
 
The die is only $10.99 but they add sales tax and $10.00 S&H too. Not so cheap any longer. (I was buying 1 but I'm not paying as much to ship as the price of the die)
 
Has anyone ever loaded 38 S&W with 9mm Makarov bullets? At 0.363-0.364 they’re close too. I’m not sure there’s any real advantage over getting the right 0.361 bullets, but while we’re on the subject.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
The die is only $10.99 but they add sales tax and $10.00 S&H too. Not so cheap any longer. (I was buying 1 but I'm not paying as much to ship as the price of the die)
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I bought 1,000 Berry’s HBWC 148g @ $.11, $0.04 cheaper tham Midway
 
ArchAngelCD said:
You can get them from Missouri Bullets for 8¢ each.

I'm not sure why you quoted my post about the price and shipping for the Cowboy Die when you are talking about bullet prices.
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long story, with many branches. But Cowboy die + Bullets, on one order and Shipping is spread out
 
Been looking at reloading tables, they all say for .38 S&W solid frame guns only.

I understand most of the break tops were black powder guns, but mine is a later smokeless version.

Can anyone point to a table for a gun like this? Or is it the weaker break top action itself that’s the problem?
 
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