38 Smith & Wesson round

[Keeterbird]

I read somewhere that the .38 Smith and Wesson is not the same as the 38 Special. Rather it has a 200 gram bullet. Can I shoot a 38 special out of a gun marked 38 smith and wesson?

Thanks for any help.

Keeterbird

 

[ghettofab]

A .38 spl round should not fit into a gun marked for .38 s&w. Even if it does, DO NOT fire it.

 

[Tommygunn]

.38 S&W is a heeled round, like a .22 is. I'm not sure offhand if a .38 Special will fit because they're a longer over all round, but if you've ever seena .38 S&W you will hopefully think better than to try it because you might blow up the gun if you do make it fit.

 

[Rampant_Colt]

There's a .38 S&W and a .38 Special -two completely different cartridges

It was designed by S&W around 1877 for their hinged-frame revolvers

It is also known as the .38 Colt New Police, and .380/200 by the British because it used a 200 GRAIN bullet

factory specs= 145gr LRN @ 730FPS, 173 FPE
200gr LRN @ 630 FPS, 176 FPE

totally obsolete cartridge

 

[Nugilum]

Here's what I was able to dig up.

".38 Smith & Wesson" is a black powder round first introduced in 1880. It was most often used in break top revolvers. The round is relatively low power and the break top action is inherently weak, so the two went well together.
-Bock442

.38 S&W is definitely not compatible with .38 S&W Special.

 

[32winspl]

I don't have the figures, but DON'T SHOOT A 38 SPL IN A 38 S&W GUN!!! It will spit little pieces of lead or jacket material back at you. I did this, and it is a very bad idea. I'm guessing that I was a lucky guy.

 

[Trebor]

To confuse matters even more the correct full name for .38 Special is ".38 Smith & Wesson Special," and you will see guns marked that way as well.

But, .38 S&W and .38 Special are not interchangable, either way, so don't even try.

 

[isp2605]

The .38 Spl is on the left. .38 S&W on the right.
The .38 S&W is slightly larger diameter and the case is a bit larger diameter. Shooting .38 Spl in .38 S&W guns, if the rd will fit, will often cause the .38 Spl case to split.

 

[Roadkill]

A .38 S&W is to a .38 special what a .22 short is to a .22 long rifle. I have an old Webley in .38 s&w, I cut down .38 sp cases to the right length and load 124g 9mms for it using about 3g of Red Dot. Fun to shoot but wouldn't be my top choice for a hand gun.

 

[isp2605]

A .38 S&W is to a .38 special what a .22 short is to a .22 long rifle.

Not correct. Where a .22 LR is a lengthen .22 Short that is not at all the same as the differences between a .38 S&W and a .38 Spl.
The .38 S&W case is .386 in diameter where the .38 Spl case is .379 in diameter. There's where the larger case size of the .38 S&W causes the splitting of .38 Spl cases. The bullet diameter of .38 S&W is about .360 compared to the .357 of the .38 Spl. The nominal rim thickness on the .38 S&W is thinner too than on the .38 Spl.

 

[atblis]

Starline

Starline sells brass for the 38 S&W

http://www.starlinebrass.com/

500 pieces would last you a very long time.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/articles2008/different_break_open_pistol/index.asp

 

[MachIVshooter]

.38 S&W is a heeled round, like a .22 is

It WAS a heeled bullet, originally .38" diameter. Today they are not. That said, they are still larger diameter than the .357" pills for .38 special (.361-.363, IIRC).

Much lower operating pressure. The .38 S&W is a very anemic round by modern standards.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

The .38 Smith & Wesson is not at all the same as the .38 Smith & Wesson Special. The standard American factory loading is a 146-grain, .363" dia. bullet (the Special is .357" or .358"), with pressure and velocity very low to keep from blowing up an antique top-break. In a modern revolver (solid frame, swingout cylinder) you can jazz this up a little with careful handloading. The 200-grain was an old (WWII) British military loading.

 

[Old Fuff]

It WAS a heeled bullet, originally .38" diameter.

Not so... The .38 Short and Long Colt were the early-day .38 cartridges that had heeled bullets.

The 200 grain bullet loading originated with Winchester, as part of their Super Police series. The British, later adopted it.

The following cartridges share a common case (.379) and bullet (.358) diameter, but the cartridge lengths and bullet weights are different:

.38 Short Colt
.38 Long Colt
.38 Special
.357 Magnum (same bullet weight as .38 Special)

The .38 S&W has a larger diameter case (.386) and bullet (.361) and is not normally interchangeable with the others.

 

[Virginian]

.38 Special and/or 357 magnum rounds will not go into the cylinder of my Colt Police Positive in .38 S&W caliber, anywhere near all the way. The 357s are longer than the cylinder in any event. The .38 S&W rounds won't fit in any more than bullet deep in any of my 357/38 mag guns either.

 

[Old Fuff]

38 Special and/or 357 magnum rounds will not go into the cylinder of my Colt Police Positive in .38 S&W caliber, anywhere near all the way. The 357s are longer than the cylinder in any event. The .38 S&W rounds won't fit in any more than bullet deep in any of my 357/38 mag guns either.

Yup... That's exactly what I'd expect. The Police Positive was usually chambered in .22 Rim Fire, .32 Colt New Police (.32 S&W Long) and .38 New Police (.38 S&W). The Police Positive Special had a longer cylinder and was usually chambered in .32-20 (.32 WCF) or .38 Special. After World War Two Colt dropped the Police Positive model and added chamberings in .22 R.F., .32 Colt New Police and .38 Colt New Police to the Police Positive Special line-up.

 

[buttrap]

You see a lot of the brit lend lease guns that where run out from the .38 to the special round. Case life is not good but they will shoot in the things just fine. I belive it was parker hale that imported a lot of them with .38 special barrels to get past the bore diamameter issues. If you dont like the worry of case splits at times you can even load 9mm brass with warmer loads as that is the wame bementiuon as the .38 but with no rim so the extration is pretty nil.

 

[kweagley]

38 smith and wesson ctg

I was given a 38 S&W revlover stamped 38S&W CTG.
The revolver has stamped on the top strap US PROPERTY G.H.D
Was wondering if anyone could give any insight to this revolver?

 

[Old Fuff]

If you look on the bottom of the butt you should find the revolver's serial number. That number should also have a "V" or "SV" prefix. Post that number (you can use xx for the last two numbers) and we can find you a lot of insights.

 

[kweagley]

38 s&w revolver with a V

There is a V looks like rest of serial last three ends with 348. still cleaning it up.
Barrel looks almost cherry and locks up very well.
Thanks

 

[Old Fuff]

Good, but I need the first numbers that come after the "V" - for example:

V 1235xx

The xx are the last numbers.

 

[kweagley]

38 s&w revolver with a V

Looks like V 482348

 

[Old Fuff]

Good, now I can track some of its history.

Examine the barrel, frame, and cylinder to see if it stamped with little marks, some of them with with crossed flags, or crossed arrows --> . Others may have crowns with letters or numbers below them. If so, it would indicate English or Commonwealth ownership.

 

[Radagast]

kweagley: Your revolver should have a five inch barrel, smooth timber grips and a lanyard swivel. It is a S&W Model K200, the .38/200 British Service Revolver, based on the K frame .38 Military & Police model of 1905 4th change, and a predecessor of today's model 10. Finish may be blue or parkerised.

These were manufactured during WWII, at first as a commercial contract between S&W & the British Government, later under US government contracts for the Lend Lease program, hence the US Property markings. GHD was initials of a government inspector at the time. The V prefix to the serial number stands for Victory and these guns were made concurrent with four inch barreled .38 special variants for the US military, known as the Victory Model. In both calibers a little over 1.5 million guns were made.

After the war a lot of the British guns were sold in the American market with the chambers bores out to accept .38 special, shooting .38 special in these guns can result in bulging or split cases as the chamber is still oversize for .38 special.

I just have a reference book, Old Fuff has a lot more knowledge, so any further info about markings will allow him to give you more specific history.

 

[kweagley]

okay on the left side of barrel is markings of a crown undre it letters BNP TO RIGHT OF IT IS STAMPED 38 " .767" under that is stamped 3 1/2 tons.
on the cylinder it is stamped with the same crown and letters BNP
That is about all that can be seen so far will keep cleaning.
Thanks All