.38 special and M1 helmets

[kannonfyre]

Can standard velocity .38 special 158gr LRN rounds out of a 4" barrel penetrate an M1 helmet (vietname war steel pot) with helmet liner?

Will +P rounds make a difference?

To all older or retired soldiers.....how was the blunt trauma protection of these helmets like?

 

[Oyeboten]

My guess-

From an Inch away, and striking a perpendicular area, probably...from 50 yards, probably not...from distances in-between, I dunno where the two would meet...

.38 Special as used in U.S. Military Revolvers, would have been 158 Grn Hardball, which would probably do better for piercing Helmets with, than RNL over intermediary distances.

 

[TEXMEX]

No way! .38 RNL won't even penetrat both sides of an empty 55 gal oil drum. Some times not even one side!!!

The .38 Spl. military round was a RN FMJ 130gr, not 158gr. At least all of it I've seen was.

The .38 spl. RNL is a wimp load. I carried it for a few years as a patrolman and most of the felons shot with it didn't show any immediate signs of being hit. The 9mm is a lot more effective, especially in lighter 115gr-127gr +P+ JHP.

 

[dogngun]

The LRN .38 Spl penetrates humans fine...too well, really which is why they invented JHP's...The penetrating steel part is why they invented .357 Magnums-to shoot into cars.

I stil have an old steel helmet/liner from the '60's...if the internal webbing was adjusted well and fit right, it was very good at shock absorbing - mine still has the back neck support strap on it for parachuting.


mark

 

[rswartsell]

+1 for dogngun,

They got to be damned heavy too, lots of neck muscle fatigue when you first began wearing them. It was really key to get the liner-webbing-straps right for trauma mitigation, might be closer to useless as shock absorption if you get it all wrong. They can dig an ugly gash if the edge gets whanged into your skin (even though the edges are turned out), and everybody has heard stories about what using the chinstrap can do if the steel pot catches explosive force like a parachute (could be just soldier myth, maybe not). But they will turn a bullet or fragments part of the time, and that's enough to get you to wear them (or sit on them while riding in a huey).

 

[TEXMEX]

dogngun says: The LRN .38 Spl penetrates humans fine...too well, really which is why they invented JHP's...The penetrating steel part is why they invented .357 Magnums-to shoot into cars.
--------------------------------------------

True about human penetration............if no heavy bones are hit.

However, I have personally seen a fleeing felon hit with a .38 spl 158gr RNL who still outran the cops, then hours later took a jitney to the hospital where the doctor removed the slug that had flattened out against his shoulder blade and was just below the surface (while I watched).

The doc slapped a bandage on and away he went to the slammer.

Yes, fleeing felons were legal targets in those days, which is why we didn't have so much crime back then!!!

 

[Maj Dad]

Up close, maybe; distance, ? Anyone have any research links? The 62 gr 5.56 will punch a kevlar at 600 yds...

Tex, all the military hardball 38 I've seen is currently 130 gr, but I have two boxes of GI WCC 158 gr HB from the early 60's. I keep it around to make my old M&Ps feel good...

 

[Oyeboten]

Thanks for the mention Maj Dad...

I thought the earlier/older GI issue .38 Special Hard Ball was usually 158 Grn...then was scratching my head at the correction I got, wondering if I had remembered wrong.


Anyway, the Hard Ball like that, especially out of long Barrel Model Revolver, was supposed to be pretty good for Car Punching in it's day...or still, I suppose.

 

[1911Tuner]

The penetrating steel part is why they invented .357 Magnums-to shoot into cars.

No. That was the .38 Super. The .357 Magnum was invented because people were blowing up K-frame .38 revolvers with 38-44 ammunition meant to be fired in N-frame revolvers.

 

[TEXMEX]

Maj Dad, Maybe I'm younger than I thought???

 

[Maj Dad]

Tex, not if you know the origin of "Gone To Texas" - or maybe you could be just a well-educated young(er) man...

BTW, I had a box of GI 38 spl tracer ammo in late 60's - wish I hadn't shot it up

 

[TEXMEX]

Maj Dad, Back in the day, I had some of that stuff too and even carried a couple of rounds in my S&W mod 10 thinking it would be fun to use when shooting at fleeing felons in the dark. But good sense soon got the better of me and I stopped carrying it before anything happened.

 

[RON in PA]

WW2 issue GI 38 special was jacketed 158 grain RN ammo. The 130 grain stuff was post war.

 

[rmfnla]

BTW, I had a box of GI 38 spl tracer ammo in late 60's - wish I hadn't shot it up

I had some of that; fun stuff, especially at night!

 

[memphisjim]

i saw a video on computer i believe it was a ww2 one it showed a 1911 , an m1carbine, and a m1 garand shooting a helmet at 50 yards i believe (maybe 25)
the 45acp only dented the helmet did not penetrate the other 2 did