38 Special Cases

[Mr_Flintstone]

Has anyone here ever had to anneal .38 Special cases? I have a bunch of Winchester cases that have been fired and loaded 5 or 6 times, and they are very hard. When I run them through my dies, they feel more like .30 carbine than .38 Special. They drag and scrape, and I have to apply way more force on the handle than do any other of my pistol/revolver cases. I have other brands of .38 Special that have been loaded more, and still feel soft, and size/flare/crimp easily.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Is it possible that your tumbler media is broken down to the point of leaving micro-fine dust?

I've only ever annealed for forming cases - never a straight or taper wall so I can't speak to your particulars on that note.

Todd.

 

[Blue68f100]

When was the last time you cleaned your dies?

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Are they PPU's by any chance. They are stiff and size a lot harder than all the other brass I have. They are good, strong brass but they are harder to resize than all my other brands.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Is it possible that your tumbler media is broken down to the point of leaving micro-fine dust?

I've only ever annealed for forming cases - never a straight or taper wall so I can't speak to your particulars on that note.

Todd.

Don’t think so. It’s new.

When was the last time you cleaned your dies?

I’ve loaded about 150 .357 mag and .38 special since I cleaned them. All other cases do fine. Just these .38 special.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Are they PPU's by any chance. They are stiff and size a lot harder than all the other brass I have. They are good, strong brass but they are harder to resize than all my other brands.

No. They are Winchester.

 

[PapaG]

Unless you have a ton of them, pitch em. 38 special has to be one of the most common, cheap brass there is. Reloading is supposed to be fun, not frustrating.

 

[cfullgraf]

I have some 38 Special cases that have probably been reloaded 20 or more times. They don't seem to require any more effort than cases of similar diameter.

But, my 38 Special cases are mostly used for 38 Special wadcutter target loads.

Over the past few years, I've started lubricated most of my handgun cases before sizing. Resizing is slick. I clean the cases after sizing anyway so no loss in time there for me.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I thought I might hand anneal the case mouths with a propane torch for about 3 seconds each. That shouldn’t be long enough to ruin the brass, and from what I’ve read, straightwall cases don’t take much to soften.

 

[doubleh]

I've never had to anneal a straight wall case except some brand new 50-140 Sharps cases. If you anneal them keep the flame close to the end and as soon as you see a slight color change quit. They should be what is a light purple when seen with my eye but I'm tone blind. Brass anneals slightly below 700 degrees F. and does it quickly. Anyway the color change is easy to see. You might make a difference by cleaning your sizing die.

 

[Skgreen]

They drag and scrape, and I have to apply way more force on the handle than do any other of my pistol/revolver cases. I have other brands of .38 Special that have been loaded more, and still feel soft, and size/flare/crimp easily.

Would certainly lead one to believe it has to do with the Brass, but it also seems odd that it would be 'work hardened' to the point of being noticeable.

Surely Winchester doesn't make any brass-plated steel case, like those sold by Extreme: https://www.freedommunitions.com/ammunition/pistol/9mm/9mm-luger-115-gr-rn-steel-new.html

 

[Eddietruett]

Are you using a carbide die? If not, your die might be the problem.
Also have you cleaned your sizing die lately?
I've been loading .38 special for over 40 years and never annealed brass. Some I've loaded at least 20 times with no problems. I chunk them when they split at the mouth or the primer socket doesn't feel tight when seating a primer

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have a bunch of Winchester cases that have been fired and loaded 5 or 6 times, and they are very hard. When I run them through my dies, they feel more like .30 carbine than .38 Special. They drag and scrape, and I have to apply way more force on the handle than do any other of my pistol/revolver cases.

5 or 6 times reloading low pressure rounds like the .38Spl shouldn't have work hardened your cases. I have several hundred W-W cases that I've loaded many time more than that which haven't exhibited the characteristics you're describing.

If this is only happening with your Sizing die, I'd try another Sizer to see if the dragging/scraping continue

 

[Milt1]

I use a carbide die and still lubricate my cases. It not only saves the die but makes resizing so much easier. Sound to me like you're not lubricating your cases.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Are you using a carbide die? If not, your die might be the problem.
Also have you cleaned your sizing die lately?
I've been loading .38 special for over 40 years and never annealed brass. Some I've loaded at least 20 times with no problems. I chunk them when they split at the mouth or the primer socket doesn't feel tight when seating a primer

Yes. I’m using a Lee carbide die set. Dies are clean. I also notice the “hardness” when I crimp. It has a scraping feel, and they are harder to crimp than others like RP, Starline, Federal, etc...

Tomorrow I’m going to count how many I have. I think I might also check them with a magnet, and clean my dies again. It’s just odd that only one head stamp is causing issues.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

If you're using carbide and are confident that your brass is properly clean and smooth and... as many feel - even if your brass were mildly *hardened* but not to the degree to be noticeable, I guess I would look at your equipment.

Is there a drag in your equipment linkage which is possibly exacerbated or heightened by the operation with that brass?

Also, have you noted any flaring - no matter how small - on the rim of the brass?

Too, and I don't really care what can of worms it opens, if I ever have troubles with domestic ammo from shooting through re-loading, Winchester is represented more than all the others put together.

Todd.

 

[PapaG]

Are these nickel plated? They are harder.

 

[Obturation]

, if I ever have troubles with domestic ammo from shooting through re-loading, Winchester is represented more than all the others put together.

My experience too. In consistent rim thickness, weird hard brass among other issues . I've had factory loaded winchester ammo in 454 casull that weren't useable in a FA revolver because of the rim thickness variations (SRH disposed of the offending rounds without an issue)

Starline, federal and Remington cases are my favorites - pmc, winchester and aguila are some of my least favorite. I use them all but if somethings off about a case I just toss it out.
I got 500 cases from once fired brass the other day, I was happy to see 95% of it was nice clean starline cases. I've ordered from them before and got a bunch of pmc and others I didn't love but they all work.
I too have come across the hard brass, about 15% of the new starline cases I ordered a couple years ago in 454 casull are unbelievably hard. I only get 2 loading out of those before they're junk- I have federal cases that have taken that same load 8-10 times no problem.
I did contact starline about it. They said any I sent would be replaced, I didn't bother because most of them are just fine and don't seem to be getting any harder.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Thanks all. Well, I think I have found one culprit. While cleaning my dies, the sizing and crimping dies were pretty clean, but my flaring die was filled with fine brass dust. I remember trimming a few odd sized .357 magnum a while back, and I guess I didn’t chamfer the case mouths good enough. I suspect that this is what was causing the scraping feel in my crimping die. I’ll try a few later and see what happens. It’s still strange that it only happens with the Winchester.

 

[Herman B]

...but my flaring die was filled with fine brass dust...

Very doubtful it's your flaring die/brass dust. 1) Your size die precedes the flair and was very resistant. 2) Flair die works the interior. Crimp works the exterior. I bet you'll have it sorted soon as the potential problems are few.