.38 special in .357 mag

[john1911]

Will I run into any problems loading .38 special +P level loads in .357 mag cases? What about regular .38 special loads in .357 mag cases?

I bet you all can guess the reason I'm asking this.

:banghead:

 

[Wil Terry]

We Have Not A Clue, Why ???

Why would you not use the correct and appropriate data for each cartridge as such information is readily available ???

 

[ReloaderFred]

You won't run into any trouble, but you also won't get the same velocities as you would in the .38 cases. My guess is you're trying to avoid the buildup in the .357 cylinder from shooting .38's in them, but want a lighter load.

If you look in your manuals, you'll find appropriate load data for the velocity level you're looking for under .357 Magnum listings, usually in the starting loads.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[trickyasafox]

As usual- Fred nailed it. the extra case capacity will probably need a touch more more powder to get the same performance. you could probably get away with the old loads in your 357 brass though.

Don't go the other way and try to get 357 performance out of 38 brass. thats bad juju.

 

[zxcvbob]

Use .38SPL +P data in .357 brass and it should work just fine -- but you'll probably get non- +P performance out of it. Not that that's a bad thing.

If you pick a powder that's appropriate for both .38 and .357, like Unique or Herco, you can load anything in-between the .38 and .357 data. (there's a big hole in the listed data between about 20000 psi and 30000 psi) You might like an intermediate load.

 

[Sunray]

"...Will I run into any problems loading...regular .38 special loads..." Nope. And nope. Shot bullseye for years using .357 cases with 2.5 grains of Bullseye and cast or swaged 148 grain WC's with no fuss.

 

[hoptob]

+1

Any recommended amount of powder between low end of 38 spl and high end of 357 magnum (for same bullet) is safe in 357 magnum cases.

I am sure you are aware of this but just in case. DON'T DO IT OTHER WAY AROUND! In other words do not exceed recommended 38 spl +P range in 38 spl +p rated brass.

MikeR

 

[The Bushmaster]

John1911...Did you load the wrong cases? ReloaderFred has it...And as Trickyasafox said. Don't reverse it.

 

[john1911]

John1911...Did you load the wrong cases?

No, I spent about three hours scrubbing the cylinder after shooting .38 sp. in my .357 mag.

 

[jfh]

The problem really is that, save for the softball DEWC loads, there are almost no 357 loads listed that are low to medium power; they typically start at mid-upper and end with balls-to-the-wall loads. So, I guess I am disagreeing with you, ReloaderFred--maybe the Vihtavuori manuals cover the low range, but no one else does. (With the CYA mentality of late, however, some recipes now end at very-low-upper--see the Hodgdon recent adjustments.) The 357 start loads aren't the equivalent of the 38+P loads--nearly everyone has stretched for the-absolutely-maximum-performance recipes.

As others have said, you can load 38+P recipes just fine in 357 cases--but the ballistics will not be the same; you can use a chrono to adjust / tweak the same loads to get the same performance, however. Initially I did this just with "subjective recoil" evaluation--but I really refined my "subjective" evaluations by checking them very frequently against a reference 38+P (re)load.

I've spent the last six months doing just that with the Speer recipes for the Gold Dot 135-gr Short Barrel JHPs. They had PDF files on reloading that bullet in both 38 and 357 cases.

Here's one example of the 357 replica load I worked up--i.e., ones to replicate GDSB135JHP 38+P factory ammo: In 38+P, about 6.8 -7.0 grains of AA#5 under a 140-gr. LTC bullet 'translated' to about 7.8 to 8.0 grains in the 357 case. The Speer PDF recipes for the 357 Magnum are built to a different power standard (ca. 1000 fps, vs. 860-880 for the 38+P), and the PDF didn't list #5 in 357 Magnum--so the development routine needed to be done.

The amount of recipe boost needed is completely powder / burn rate dependent, and there is no rule of thumb that would work.

BTW, I did the translating for just the reason you mention, John1911--I wanted to spend time shooting and not scrubbing the cylinders of my M&P 340 and 640.

Jim H.

 

[ReloaderFred]

No problem, Jim. I sometimes have a tendency to forget that some people haven't been loading as long as I have and aren't able to experiment with their loads.

I was looking in the Sierra 50th Anniversary Edition of their loading manual, which happened to be handy by my computer, and they list plain .38 Special loads with a 158 grain bullet at velocities ending at 1000 fps, with a variety of powders. Under the data for the .357 Magnum, they list quite a few loads for the same bullet starting at 1,050 fps, which for this discussion is pretty close to what john1911 was asking for. I figured you could just drop back a skosh (that's an official loading term, by the way) and achieve the 1,000 fps of the .38 Special load and be good to go. They listed 8 common powders at the 1,050 fps level for the Magnum case, which would work, but they are all heavier charges than the .38 Special loads for the 1,000 fps level in the .38 case. It's pretty well understood that the larger volume of the .357 Magnum case will require heavier charges to achieve the same velocity, which is what was stated in the original post. And all he really asked was if he was safe in using .38 +P loads in .357 brass, and if he would run into any trouble if he did? The answer to both questions is "yes, he's safe" and "no, he won't run into any trouble". He just wants to spend more time shooting and less time cleaning his guns. It doesn't appear that he's trying to achieve a particular performance level, per se.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[bunnielab]

The starting loads for Trail Boss for .357 are pretty low.

158 GR. CAST LSWC 158 Trail Boss .357" 1.610"
G ________ Vel. ______ Pressure
3.2________ 754 ______ 16,500 CUP
4.2 _______ 865 ______ 20,400 CUP

And they smell nice too. If you like sulfur that is.

 

[MartinBrody]

Shot bullseye for years using .357 cases with 2.5 grains of Bullseye and cast or swaged 148 grain WC's with no fuss.

I agree, you are maybe best using 148 grain wadcutters with 38 loads in 357 cases, the bullet takes up more room leaving less of the case empty, thereby avoiding issues with how the powder burns by having too little powder in too large a case.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Many reloaders use .38 Special data and .357 Magnum cases without a problem. Many don't even increase the charge and use the data from the books.

Longshot works very well for .38 Special +P rounds and will work well in a .357 Magnum case too. I load 5.5gr Longshot under a 158gr JHP bullet. I'm guessing 5.6gr Longshot will give you the same performance in a .357 Magnum case, both using a standard Small Pistol Primer. (use this data at your own risk, I assume no responsibility)

 

[SSN Vet]

John,

are you saying you actually got the rings in the cylinder completely cleaned up?

You're a better man than I.

I've scrubbed mine with brass brushes, stainless steel 'cyclone' brushes and lots of patches and they don't look any better.

any secret trick or solvent?

Now that I reload and have a grunch of .357 brass, I'm all done shooting .38 spl brass in this revolver.

 

[john1911]

John,

are you saying you actually got the rings in the cylinder completely cleaned up?

No, there's still a little bit of crud. I cleaned it till 357s would slide in all the way.

 

[ReloaderFred]

If you are really, really serious about removing the .38 Special ring from .357 revolver cylinders, then there is a tool for doing just that. It's made by Clymer Reamers and is available from Brownell's. Here is the link: https://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=5040&title=CYLINDER DELEAD REAMER This isn't something every shooter needs, and it will remove metal if improperly applied. I have one and you have to be careful with it.

Hope this helps.

Fred

I just checked and it looks like Brownell's has dropped it from their catalog, but it's probably available directly from Clymer.

 

[Pine Cone]

My experience is limited, but I like my W231 4.7 grain load for 158 grain Cu Plated X-treme RNFP bullets in .357 Magnum cases in either my S&W .357 revolvers or my Marin 1894C.

That is at the high end of the .38 Special +P loads shown in my Lee Reloading manual. I tried lighter loads and the bullets seemed to drop too much after 20 yards or so. These are nicer to shoot than factory .357s but still hit the target at 25 yards where I expect them to. YMMV

 

[Bula]

Anyone try using the Chore boy copper pot scrubbers cut into squares and wound around a tired .357 brush? Works pretty good at removing the rings. I also mop it pretty heavily with some hoppes-let it sit- about 20 minutes prior.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

It's very simple to remove all the mess shooting a .38 Special case in a .357 Magnum leaves. All you need to do is cut a small patch of Lead-Away cloth and use your Jag to run it over the carbon left in the cylinder a few times and your cylinder is totally clean and shiny again. Of course this only works on Stainless cylinders, don't use Lead-Away on a Blue finish.

As for in the field, if you are going to be shooting a lot of .38 Special rounds, especially full Wadcutters, and you are going to later shoot .357 Magnum rounds there's a quick way to clean off the carbon buildup that may interfere with your Magnum rounds. All you need is a empty spent .357 Magnum case. Insert it into each charge hole and tap it if necessary. That will remove any high spots of carbon which will allow you to chamber .357 Magnum rounds correctly.