38 special/+p/357 mag questions

[brewer12345]

I have been reloading shotshells for a couple of years and am finally ready to start reloading metallic. I will start with 38 special since it seems relatively forgiving for a newbie plus the components are a lot cheaper than with high power rifle rounds so if I screw some up in the learning process it will cost a lot less than doing the same with, say, 35 Remington. Although I will reload and shoot a fair bit of .38 special, all I own are 357 mag firearms. So a silly question: Since my guns are rated for pressures way over 38 special+P, does it matter if I were to exceed the SAAMI specs by a few thousand psi? Will the brass fail in an exciting fashion when such cartridges are fired, or is the risk mainly to the gun?

I don't plan on doing so, since I suspect accuracy would be less than ideal and the hazards of someone else shooting such loads out of a 38 only gun don't make me want to do any of this. I am just trying to fathom how much margin of error I have due to using 357 guns with 38s as I climb the learning curve.

 

[Reeferman]

Just load 38 plus loads in 357 brass.

 

[Steve in PA]

Load .38 Special brass with .38 Special loads.

Load .357 Magnum brass with light or heavy .357 Magnum loads.

You'll create headaches trying to remember if the .38 load is a ".38 Special" load or something you pushed beyond the specs.

I have several .38/.357 handguns, and that is the way I reload.

I'll use my .38 loads in my .357 for range practice and general plinking.

 

[brewer12345]

That is absolutely what I plan on doing. Since I don't shoot a lot of 357 and I am a lot more interested in accuracy that velocity/recoil, its not really my aim to stuff more powder than is wise into a 38 case. I was more asking so that I understand margin of error as I get started reloading.

 

[goldbyz]

I have been reloading 38, 38+p and 357 mag. for some time, never have I entertained the thought of loading my 38 rounds to 357 pressures. To much to keep track of. Be safe and stay with the recommended loads for the cartridge you are loading. You can shoot both in your 357 magnum.
Goldbyz

 

[BigBore45]

As far as safety. In your guns they is a pretty big gray area, with that being said I would not ever go above published load data just in case a 38 special gun got ahold of one someday.

 

[Steve C]

There's plenty of safety room built into the manuals. If you use current .38 spl +P published data you will never exceed maximum +p levels. Most of the +P data I've seen that has actual pressure levels shown only exceed the Standard pressure SAAMI by a few 100 psi and don't come close to maximum SAAMI pressure for .38 +P.

.

 

[Walkalong]

+P is just fine, except for a few old guns.

Loading light .457 Magnum loads in .38 Spl brass can be dangerous if the loads find their way into .38 Spl guns. Never say never. Stuff happens. It is far safer to load anything over .38 Spl +P in .357 brass.

Not because of .38 Spl brass, but because of the guns it could potential get into.

 

[WestKentucky]

I will say this either a huge disclaimer to not be a freaking idiot like I was a decade ago...I started loading rifle and then got into pistol. 357 and 38spl is the first pistol round I ever loaded. I got fed up with having 2 different loads and started cramming everything...38 or 357...into the case at 357 mid-range loads on 38 spl settings so I was seating bullets DEEP and not crimping the 38s. What I understand now tells me how bad of an idea this was. My second brainstorm was to get as much out of a 357 as I could, and I ran them up well over the max loads. The issues I saw were very common, and indicative of pressure problems. Stuck cases, loose primer pockets, cracked cases, and short brass life.

I cannot say how much of a safety margin has been put into the printed manuals, but there is a safety margin there. Staying within the boundaries of printed materials is always a good idea. Should you venture outside of those boundaries you are putting the gun at risk of early breakage. I broke my taurus 66 by wearing out out with ridiculous loads. If you get very far outside of those bounds (no way to know either because powders do wierd things outside of designed pressures) you risk destroying the gun in a catastrophic failure type scenario in which parts of the gun become schrapnel.

Another thing to consider is your skills at this point to determine pressure signs. You need to put some time into studying the different ways to read cases. It is simple, but at the same time difficult to figure out. Some of the signs of low pressure look very similar to those signs at high pressure. Things to look for on pressure signs are:
Soot outside of cases
Unburned powder granules inside cases or around the forcing cone
Domed primers
Inconsistent ignition
Case bulging
Cracked brass (need to know how many times fired here)
Flattened primers
Flowing primers
Pierced primers
Loose primer pocket
Variation in required force on the press.

What really complicates matters is that some of the above items have multiple potential causes, and you need to figure out the why as soon as you figure out the what. Pierced primers may be a sign of really really hot loads, soft primer cup material, or sharp pointy parts on the firing pin itself.

 

[brewer12345]

To be clear (again), I don't really have any interest in near/over limits loads in 38 or 357. I'm not a recoil junkie and 357 isn't legal for (any) big game in my state, so the only things I use these guns for on a regular basis is target shooting, plinking and small game. None of those applications really even calls for 357 loads, let alone full house versions. The few cylinders of commercial "bear loads" I have shot did not impress me with the controllability or accuracy of the on the limit stuff, let alone the muzzle blast or recoil. My question really had to do with the acknowledgement that I am just learning and I am likely to make mistakes as I start out. I am a relatively cautious person, so the idea of less-than-limit 38 loads shot out of a gun rated for roughly twice the SAAMI pressure limit for 38 makes me a lot comfier as I climb the learning curve.

 

[Haxby]

Any current published load for 38+P will be completely safe in any properly functioning 357, with a huge margin for safety.

 

[RPegram]

I've shot lots of 38spc in a 357 and I only load them to mid-range 38spc. My latest and actually my favorite load is a 125gr Missouri Bullet RNFP hi-tek coated over 5.6 gr of CFE-Pistol. They shoot great out of a 38spc snubby or a 6" GP-100. Inexpensive to load and you can shoot em all day long. The max charge is 6.2gr and that would be pushing +P pressure. These are not fun for a snubby and not as accurate either. I haven't tried this load in the 357, so can't comment on accuracy in a longer barrel.

 

[BSA1]

With metallic cartridge reloading every gun is a rule unto itself.

Faster is not always better. There is a point of diminishing returns. Using .357 magnum cases will give you more flexibility in velocity and power range.

You probably have but if you don't get several different reloading manuals.

(hint; Buy used previous editions from Amazon & ebay. The data does not change much from edition to edition and it saves you bunch of money).

 

[Reeferman]

I gave up loading 38 special and shooting them in my 357. It's much easier loading light 357 and there is no crap in the cylinder. Like BSA1 said there is more flexibility with 357 cases.

 

[brewer12345]

Only trouble with that is 357 cases are harder to come by/more expensive. I plan to work up all purpose lead/plated 38 SWC and DEWC loads and then have a separate, higher powered 357 mag load with jacketed bullets. That way it is easier to know what you are shooting: mild if it is a 38 case, wild if it is 357.

 

[Ironicaintit]

Brewer,
If you're worried about the possibility of overstuffing a case, and if it will cause problems....then maybe you should stick to a type of powder that meters well, and is of a fluffy type that really fills the case.

I really concentrate on powder...in that I need the cartridges I'm building to be safe and consistent. My boy will be helping me shoot up my stash in a few years, so I figure it's best to concentrate on quality.

I wouldn't want any 38spcl+p laying around that will chamber in a gun it may not be safe for.

 

[cfullgraf]

Only trouble with that is 357 cases are harder to come by/more expensive.

Starline Brass is shipping 357 Magnum brass. Order as much as you like.

$135/1000.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/order-online/all-cases.cfm

Note, Starline 38 Special cases are $130.5/1000. Not much difference in price.

I prefer to shoot 357 Magnum cases in my 357 Magnum revolvers, even light loads.

In years gone by, when I only had 357 Magnum revolvers and shot 38 Special cases in them, I never loaded 38 Special cases beyond top 38 Special loads. I was too concerned of the risk they might find their way in a 38 Special revolver.

Now I have some 38 Special only revolvers.

 

[[email protected]]

Since your learning. The pressure curve in most loadings is not linear. A little more powder may be way over pressure. Stop at max charge if your working up your loads, and DONT start at max charge if you didn't.

 

[jadm]

the Lyman reloading hand book has a lot of reduced loads, way below the standard reloading manual recommendations.

Winchester loading data book shows quote: a 148 wad cutter @3.4 gr at a stated 880fps (i think the fps is very optimistic) but there is a lot of oof load data out there.

also...the old NRA one book/one caliber is a great resource for comparing load data

 

[TimSr]

Brewer, I think the question you are trying to ask is whether 38 brass is any "weaker" than 357 brass, and whether there is any reason to carefully work up to the upper edge of 38 spl loads, since you are shooting them in a 357.

There is no significant "strength" difference in 38, 38 +p, and 357 brass.

I too load a lot of 38s for a 357, and the beauty is that you don't need to "work up" 38 spl loads to shoot in your 357, as nothing in 38spl published data will come close in pressure to even starting loads for 357, so even if they were over pressure limits for a 38 spl, you wouldn't see any signs of it in your gun. Stick with published data so you know exactly what you are loading, but no need to creep up to the upper limits of 38spl in small increments if that is what you want to shoot.

 

[Jim Watson]

To add to all the cautions here...

Since my guns are rated for pressures way over 38 special+P, does it matter if I were to exceed the SAAMI specs by a few thousand psi?

How do you define and identify "a few"? It isn't hard to get up to a LOT without warning.

You can safely load .38 +P and shoot it in a Magnum gun without the "start low and work up" ritual, but I do not recommend overloads.

 

[Walkalong]

.357 brass is thicker. I always advise against loading over .38 Spl pressures in .38 Spl brass because they can end up in a gun not designed for that kind of pressure. You can never have 100% control over realods, especially after you pass away. That said, some people think I am just a scardy cat and am being overly cautious. That's fine.

 

[Walkalong]

To add to all the cautions here...

Since my guns are rated for pressures way over 38 special+P, does it matter if I were to exceed the SAAMI specs by a few thousand psi?

How do you define and identify "a few"? It isn't hard to get up to a LOT without warning.

You can safely load .38 +P and shoot it in a Magnum gun without the "start low and work up" ritual, but I do not recommend overloads.

Exactly.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree with the good advice you already got, it's a bad idea to put .357 Magnum pressures in a .38 Special case.

I know that isn't what you asked. Yes, it is safe to go slightly over pressure when loading a .38 Special that will be shot in a .357 Magnum revolver. Currently the .38 Special is rated @17,000 psi, the .38 Special +P @20,000 psi and the .357 Magnum @35,000 psi. If you are loading .38 Special ammo and mess up you are OK but I highly recommend not going over the +P pressures for the above safety concerns. Of course it's best to be careful and not make mistakes. Check everything and then check it again.

Welcome to the addiction, don't say you weren't warned lol.

 

[mdi]

In my experience, modern cases, the only diffrence between 38 Special and .357 magnum cases id case length. Way back when I sectioned a 38 and a 357 case. Web thickness and head thickness were the same. If you have no plan on making your 38 brass into "shor" 357s", and want accuracy loads, just use 357 brass and work up accurate, light loads. (I have used 38 Special data, right outta the book in 357 Magnum brass many times. The difference is my 357 brass loads are lower in pressure/velocity than listed if they are loaded in 38 Special brass. I've reloaded a bunch of 357 Magnums with DEWC over very light loads of Bullseye.).