.38 Special Question

[Mr_Flintstone]

In the past, I've reloaded a lot of .38 special brass trimmed down to .38 Long Colt length, and used LC data. They shoot perfectly, but don't have the kick that .38 Special does. I use them mainly for plinking. Now my question. Can I load .38 special brass down to the same data levels as .38 LC? I realize that the larger case capacity will lower the pressure somewhat, but if I stick to the top half of the LC data range, wouldn't they be pretty much the same as .38 LC?

 

[hdwhit]

Mr. Flintstone wrote:
Can I load .38 special brass down to the same data levels as .38 LC?

A quick check of Hodgdon's website shows considerable overlap between 38 Spl and 38 LC data for lead bullets of comparable weight, so it should not be difficult for you to find a 38 Special load that will mimic the 38 Long Colt loads you found so agreeable.

But, I will go on to caution that while there can be overlap between the loads for two cartridges, loads should be based on published data for the cartridge you are shooting. It would be extremely poor - and dangerous - practice to simply assume that because one cartridge is similar to another, the loads could be transferred between them.

 

[mdi]

I dunno how low the velocities will be with LC data used in Special brass so there may be a problem with bullets not exiting the barrel. I have used 38 Special charges in 357 brass, and 44 Special data in 44 Magnum brass, but not any 38 LC or 44-40 data in Special or Magnum brass. The lightest loads I've used in 38 Special were a 150 gr. DEWC over 2.4 gr of Bullseye. It was like shooting a 22. Perhaps just use 38 Special starting loads in Special brass, and going down a bit at a time?

 

[Walkalong]

I realize that the larger case capacity will lower the pressure somewhat, but if I stick to the top half of the LC data range, wouldn't they be pretty much the same as .38 LC?

You should be fine, just be sure all bullets exit the barrel when starting the work up. I like to test light loads powder forward to ensure that all bullets will exit the barrel no matter the pistols position. Some loads flunk this test. Been there, done that, have the brass rod in the range bag.

 

[brewer12345]

If you are really looking for light 38 loads, try some trail boss with lighter weight bullets. Not position sensitive and capable of very powder puff loads.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

If you are really looking for light 38 loads, try some trail boss with lighter weight bullets. Not position sensitive and capable of very powder puff loads.

I load a lot of 38 Special with TB, but the 38 LC TB load is about 125 fps slower than the minimum .38 Special load (with corresponding reduced recoil). I guess you would almost call it a gallery load. I guess if I use a chrono, and step the .38 special down until I have the same velocity as the .38 LC, it should be (for all intents and purposes) a Long Colt in a Special case.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Why are you trying so hard to match a .38 LC round? (other than the obvious lighter recoil)

I agree with you, use a chrono to develop the replica .38 LC load. It will work well IMO and can be safely done.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Why are you trying so hard to match a .38 LC round? (other than the obvious lighter recoil)

I agree with you, use a chrono to develop the replica .38 LC load. It will work well IMO and can be safely done.

I like to shoot, and I have tendonitis in both shoulders, and carpal tunnel in both wrists. Every little reduction in recoil helps. I still shoot full power every now and then, but when it's just for fun, I go light.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

In that case try using faster pistol powders and reduce the loads until you find one that agrees with your problems. If course just be sure the bullet leaves the barrel. I'm guessing staying just above 600 FPS will do it. Good luck.
Bullseye, Clays, Red Dot, W231 and the like.

 

[ray15]

I've been loading the range pickup brass I found from this stuff: https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-short-125-gr-lrn-magtech-50-rounds

It's a 38 special training round with a length of 19mm, like a 9mm luger. I tried 2.6gr. of Titegroup with a plated 125gr. bullet at a 9mm-like OAL and they made 600fps on average. Negative recoil. I'm going to up the charge a bit on the next batch and try for 700fps to see if the spread decreases.

4" .357 GP100

xtreme 125HP plated .357"
2.6gr. Titegroup
CCI SPP/CBC .38spl 'C' cases
1.08" OAL
Average: 606.0 FPS
SD: 25.4 FPS
Min: 563 FPS
Max: 632 FPS
Spread: 69 FPS

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I've been loading the range pickup brass I found from this stuff: https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-short-125-gr-lrn-magtech-50-rounds

It's a 38 special training round with a length of 19mm, like a 9mm luger. I tried 2.6gr. of Titegroup with a plated 125gr. bullet at a 9mm-like OAL and they made 600fps on average. Negative recoil. I'm going to up the charge a bit on the next batch and try for 700fps to see if the spread decreases.

4" .357 GP100

xtreme 125HP plated .357"
2.6gr. Titegroup
CCI SPP/CBC .38spl 'C' cases
1.08" OAL
Average: 606.0 FPS
SD: 25.4 FPS
Min: 563 FPS
Max: 632 FPS
Spread: 69 FPS

Yeah, I love that stuff. Almost like shooting a 22. I buy the Remington 38 Short Target version when I can find it. I've reloaded my brass with 38 Short Colt data several times, and it's getting kinda ragged now. I may just order some Starline 38 Short Colt brass. It is shortened 38 special brass, and not the larger diameter 38 SC.

It's probably better to stick to the shorter cases so I'm sure they are light loads. I still like the idea of downloading the 38 special with a chrono test just so I'll have the load data if I need it later.

 

[ray15]

Those Starline 38SC cases look about identical the the CBC 'C' cases I'm using. I've got about 125 of them - more will appear in the barrels at the range I shoot at if I'm patient.

Shooting the mouse-farts in my 40oz. revolver recoils a lot less than my customized Buckmark does with HV 22LR ammo. The Buckmark has one of those aluminum Tactical Solutions barrels and a compensator. But even with a steel barrel, it's similar.

I would think there's an advantage to getting rid of the excess case capacity. Probably offset to one degree or another by the bullet starting so far back in the chambers. I prefer to shoot normal 38 special at the +P level most of the time, but do play with mouse-fart and W296 .357 loads to keep things interesting. I'm rather enjoying this revolver - should have gotten one years ago.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I thought about loading some 125 gr lead bullets into new 38 SC length brass with 9mm lead data once to shoot out of my 357 mag revolver. The case dimensions are nearly identical for the two cartridges. I never did though, and opted for loading 38+P instead.

 

[brewer12345]

Hmmm, other obvious solutions are shoot a heavier gun, or use a different bullet type for the really light loads. My lightest load is done with hbwc bullets seated flush. No mistaking them for anything else.

 

[tcj]

I find that shooting 158swc's over Bullseye (min. load data) feels nearly as low in recoil as 22lr when shot out of my gp100 (6")

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I thought about loading some 125 gr lead bullets into new 38 SC length brass with 9mm lead data once to shoot out of my 357 mag revolver. The case dimensions are nearly identical for the two cartridges. I never did though, and opted for loading 38+P instead.

If you are looking for a light load with minimal recoil you don't want to load anything with 9mm load data. The 9mm can be loaded to 35,000 PSI, not what I would call light.

It is a very bad idea to mix cartridges, shorten brass and use data developed for one cartridge in another just because the case is now shorter. That is a disaster waiting to happen.

Instead of mixing cases, case length, data and charge weights why not just find a nice old S&W revolver chambered in .38 S&W and enjoy shooting low recoil ammo all day long? The .38 S&W is a nice light cartridge and it won't be confused with another or shot in the wrong gun.

Check the load data, you shoot a 145/146gr Lead bullet @~ 600 fps. It's very easy on the gun and on the shooter!

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Hmmm, other obvious solutions are shoot a heavier gun, or use a different bullet type for the really light loads. My lightest load is done with hbwc bullets seated flush. No mistaking them for anything else.

I like wad cutters too. They are heavy, but have a lower velocity than standard rounds.

If you are looking for a light load with minimal recoil you don't want to load anything with 9mm load data. The 9mm can be loaded to 35,000 PSI, not what I would call light.

It is a very bad idea to mix cartridges, shorten brass and use data developed for one cartridge in another just because the case is now shorter. That is a disaster waiting to happen.

Instead of mixing cases, case length, data and charge weights why not just find a nice old S&W revolver chambered in .38 S&W and enjoy shooting low recoil ammo all day long? The .38 S&W is a nice light cartridge and it won't be confused with another or shot in the wrong gun.

Check the load data, you shoot a 145/146gr Lead bullet @~ 600 fps. It's very easy on the gun and on the shooter!

I guess I shift gears sometimes. I didn't mean that I was planning to load 9mm/357 short for reduced recoil; only that I thought it would be interesting. It would be like a 9mm Federal rimmed, but would fit in a standard .357 magnum revolver. The reason I didn't was because there would be no way to tell them from a .38 Short Colt round which would (might) be disastrous in a .38 special revolver; and because .38 Spl +P was very close to (and much safer than) what I wanted the round for in the first place. I still think it would be interesting though.

As for .38 S&W, I agree that it is a nice light cartridge. I just don't have a .38 S&W revolver, and it would be much cheaper for me to load .38 SC brass using .38 S&W load data. From all that I've read, and the calculations I've made, the case volume of the two cartridges are nearly identical. The .38 SC is a little shorter, and narrower (not by much), but the bullets don't seat as deep, so the internal volume is virtually the same. In a 100 year old Short Colt, it might make a little difference, but in a modern .38 Special or .357 the difference would be negligible.

But that's all beside the point. I'm just going to order some .38 LC and .38 SC brass from Starline, load 'em up, and shoot 'em up. I just gotta remember to keep the chambers cleaned so the shorter rounds don't leave carbon rings.

 

[Walkalong]

I just use .38 Spl brass for light .38 Spl loads, but shorter brass does have two advantages.

1. Better powder burn if the powder is away from the primer because there is less or no empty space in a charged round compared to a .38 Spl case.
2. Faster reloads using moonclips or speedloaders in revolver games. For example, folks using .44 Russion cases for .44 Spl revolvers.

And I do have a .38 S&W.

 

[someguy2800]

I would just load whatever bullet you like in a 38 special case with 700x or bullseye to 600-700 fps or so.

 

[Walkalong]

I used 700X (Came in a paper bag) and 125, 140 & 158 Gr lead bullets for years. Accuracy was excellent, pretty clean, what wasn't to like. No chrono, so idea of the FPS, but accuracy was great and recoil very tolerable for long sessions. Shoots much better than it meters. You could do a lot worse.