.38 Special with FFFg Goex....

[Savage30L]

I have about 1 1/2 pounds of Goex FFFg powder hanging around here in the man-cave, and don't know what to do with it. It occurred to me that I could load up some .38 Special with it. Not lead cowboy loads, but jacketed Hornady or Speer bullets. Has anyone here done this? If so, would you be willing to share your loads? This would be for a S&W model 64. I'm guessing I could throw powder to just above the seating depth, and compress the powder a bit, but I'm wondering if anyone else has experience with it.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I've never done it, but I have seen black powder data for 38 Spl.

 

[Mostly Lead]

I have about 1 1/2 pounds of Goex FFFg powder hanging around here in the man-cave, and don't know what to do with it. It occurred to me that I could load up some .38 Special with it. Not lead cowboy loads, but jacketed Hornady or Speer bullets. Has anyone here done this? If so, would you be willing to share your loads? This would be for a S&W model 64. I'm guessing I could throw powder to just above the seating depth, and compress the powder a bit, but I'm wondering if anyone else has experience with it.

Loaded some 45 Colt for my Ruger Blackhawk once - never again... gummed up the cylinder and mechanisms, didn't get through 25 of them.

Unless I were shooting a dedicated black powder gun and was prepared to clean it accordingly, that's not for me.

But hey, feel free to give it a shot! Perhaps your experience will be better than mine.

I've never done it, but I have seen black powder data for 38 Spl.

Looks like they do publish a load on the GOEX website. As I'm not a BP guy, not sure how to measure by volume or if the numbers GOEX provides are weight in grains...

 

[Savage30L]

Loaded some 45 Colt for my Ruger Blackhawk once - never again... gummed up the cylinder and mechanisms, didn't get through 25 of them.

Unless I were shooting a dedicated black powder gun and was prepared to clean it accordingly, that's not for me.

But hey, feel free to give it a shot! Perhaps your experience will be better than mine.

That's OK, your comment is the sort of practical information I'm looking for.

 

[armoredman]

I read the charge list - 8mm LAbel? That's funny!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I found out the lead bullets lubed with wax, liquid Alox, etc were what caused gumming up, not the black powder. Switching to the Hunter’s Supply cast and their funky green lube solved the problem. That’s actually how I discovered Hunter’s Supply. They were recommended by another cartridge black powder shooter.

I have not tried jacketed bullets but the fact that they are not lubed should help, not hurt. Good luck and keep notes.

 

[n2omike]

I'm 55. When my brother and I were kids, dad bought us all CVA Mountain Rifle kits. After shooting, the barrels had to be cleaned with hot, soapy water. I wouldn't subject anything I cared about to black powder unless that was all it could handle. Anything that burns that smoky is NOT burning clean at all. Also bad about causing rust. Still have the rifle, and a 50cal Mountain pistol to match. Really fun stuff, but you couldn't be lazy when it came to cleaning.
Good Luck, but I wouldn't do it. Pistol powder per shot is just too cheap. You'd be stepping over dollars to pick up dimes.

 

[nettlle]

I keep my black powder reloading and shooting stuff completely isolated from my smokeless reloading stuff. If there is even a smidgen of black powder left over after cleaning it will draw moisture and rust. I even have separate gun cases for my smokeless and black powder guns. Learned this the hard way. And for my muzzle loaders I prefer black powder.

 

[Englishmn]

I was bored and loaded some 38 spl for a m&p I had. Just used commercial cast and wasn't too bad only fired 18 then tore it down and washed in hot water. No load data just measured where bullet would sit and filled a little more for a compressed load. The smoke was fun!

 

[Armored farmer]

You can do it.
I wouldn't, unless you're prepared to spend time and considerable effort cleaning up.
After shooting my cap n ball revolvers with BP, I break them down to the lowest common denominator and scrub the parts with a toothbrush...blow them dry with an air compressor...relube...wipe down...reassemble .
And a '58 Remington is pretty basic.
You could buy a cap n ball and have a blast with it. They're on sale at midway usa!

 

[Englishmn]

That's why if you're going to shoot some bp shoot a lot the clean up is the same for one as fifty.

 

[Ritchie]

I have about 1 1/2 pounds of Goex FFFg powder hanging around here in the man-cave, and don't know what to do with it. It occurred to me that I could load up some .38 Special with it. Not lead cowboy loads, but jacketed Hornady or Speer bullets. Has anyone here done this? If so, would you be willing to share your loads? This would be for a S&W model 64. I'm guessing I could throw powder to just above the seating depth, and compress the powder a bit, but I'm wondering if anyone else has experience with it.

I would strongly suggest NOT using a conventional powder dispenser for black powder. Manufacturers of powder measures intended for smokeless powder do caution against using them for BP. The most sensible course might be to gift the powder to a BP shooter.

 

[n2omike]

I would strongly suggest NOT using a conventional powder dispenser for black powder. Manufacturers of powder measures intended for smokeless powder do caution against using them for BP. The most sensible course might be to gift the powder to a BP shooter.

Agreed! MUCH easier to set off black powder. The 'crunching' you sometimes feel in standard powder measures can be enough to set off BP grains... and once that happens, the entire batch can go poof. lol

Is it still a requirement for outlets to store BP in a separate bunker outside the store? I know it use to be. Smokeless can be stored inside, but the BP had to be in a separate building outside.

 

[Savage30L]

I would strongly suggest NOT using a conventional powder dispenser for black powder. Manufacturers of powder measures intended for smokeless powder do caution against using them for BP. The most sensible course might be to gift the powder to a BP shooter.

I'm a black powder shooter, and have been for more than 50 years. I just thought I might also use it for .38 rounds. I shoot mostly Pyrodex nowadays, and the black powder I have is FFFg, which is more suited to pistols than to .50 caliber rifles.

 

[blackhawk44]

Using jacketed bullets, there is no way to include a black powder type lube to keep the fowling soft (other than lube "cookies", a topic totally outside this discussion). Without that lube, the fowling will harden very quickly, making for a very short shot string and a very difficult cleanup.

 

[blackhawk44]

And I concur on no black powder in a modern powder measure !! Too high of a chance of static igniting the entire measure.

 

[Ed]

If it’s unopened I’ll help you get rid of it. Let me know a price.

 

[Savage30L]

If it’s unopened I’ll help you get rid of it. Let me know a price.

I don't want to get rid of it. I want to use it.

 

[J-Bar]

I shot blackpowder cartridges, mostly .38 Special, for 20 years in SASS cowboy action competition. I always loaded lead bullets lubed with beeswax/crisco. Alox and conventional smokeless lubes will allow blackpowder fouling/residue to harden. I never used jacketed bullets with blackpowder in a swing-out revolver but IF I were going to do it:

1. Fill the case to seating depth. Contact is good, compression not necessary. I used Lee dippers but you can make your own dipper by trimming a case to the length that holds the amount of powder you want.

2. Coat the inside of the frame ( immediately surrounding the cylinder) with smeared Mobil 1 red grease. It will allow you to wipe out 99% of the blackpowder gunk with a paper towel after shooting.

3. Invest in a spray can of Ballistol. Spritz the cylinder inside and out after every 6 shots. Spritz the barrel after every 6 shots also, and pass a patch down the bore to remove most of the Ballistol/crud mix before you shoot the next cylinder full. By treating the cylinder and barrel with Ballistol so often, I expect you can get by without lube on the bullet.

As others have recommended, clean the gun thoroughly after shooting. Soapy water is the usual blackpowder cleanser, but any other solvents should also work. Remove and disassemble the yoke and cylinder, including the ejector rod. Remove the sideplate (careful if you haven't done that before; don't pry!) and spray the internals clean with brake parts cleaner. There shouldn't be all that much fouling on the inside, that's one of the reasons you lined the frame with Mobil 1 grease.

I bet you will decide it was fun, and worth the bit of extra effort. Hope you will post a range report.

 

[Savage30L]

I shot blackpowder cartridges, mostly .38 Special, for 20 years in SASS cowboy action competition. I always loaded lead bullets lubed with beeswax/crisco. Alox and conventional smokeless lubes will allow blackpowder fouling/residue to harden. I never used jacketed bullets with blackpowder in a swing-out revolver but IF I were going to do it:

1. Fill the case to seating depth. Contact is good, compression not necessary. I used Lee dippers but you can make your own dipper by trimming a case to the length that holds the amount of powder you want.

2. Coat the inside of the frame ( immediately surrounding the cylinder) with smeared Mobil 1 red grease. It will allow you to wipe out 99% of the blackpowder gunk with a paper towel after shooting.

3. Invest in a spray can of Ballistol. Spritz the cylinder inside and out after every 6 shots. Spritz the barrel after every 6 shots also, and pass a patch down the bore to remove most of the Ballistol/crud mix before you shoot the next cylinder full. By treating the cylinder and barrel with Ballistol so often, I expect you can get by without lube on the bullet.

As others have recommended, clean the gun thoroughly after shooting. Soapy water is the usual blackpowder cleanser, but any other solvents should also work. Remove and disassemble the yoke and cylinder, including the ejector rod. Remove the sideplate (careful if you haven't done that before; don't pry!) and spray the internals clean with brake parts cleaner. There shouldn't be all that much fouling on the inside, that's one of the reasons you lined the frame with Mobil 1 grease.

I bet you will decide it was fun, and worth the bit of extra effort. Hope you will post a range report.

Actually, that's a bit more trouble than it would be worth to me. But I thank you for your comments, it's "news I can use".

I have several black powder firearms, but the only one I use regularly, is a TC Encore rifle that I use during the muzzle-loader season for deer. Cleanup is a snap, compared to the procedure you have outlined above. I think I'll stick to that.

 

[n2omike]

I have is FFFg, which is more suited to pistols than to .50 caliber rifles.

I've used FFF in both pistols and rifles since I was a kid. If it doesn't over pressure a pistol, it's not going to over pressure a rifle. BP burns really slow as-is, so I don't see any downside. I would shoot between 30 and 60 grains in the 50 cal CVA Mountain Pistol, and up to 90 in the rifle, but usually 60 in that as well.

I still wouldn't subject any modern firearm to BP unless I had no choice. Saving money on powder is a weak argument, as the price per shot of 38 Special pistol powder is almost nothing. The cleaning would cost more than the savings. lol

But, if you get your enjoyment from seeing the smoke and it's feels cool for you to do... Go for it!

 

[J-Bar]

Actually, that's a bit more trouble than it would be worth to me. But I thank you for your comments, it's "news I can use".

I have several black powder firearms, but the only one I use regularly, is a TC Encore rifle that I use during the muzzle-loader season for deer. Cleanup is a snap, compared to the procedure you have outlined above. I think I'll stick to that.

Other than eliminating air space between the powder and bullet, all my other recommendations are guesses. You probably wouldn't need to use Ballistol after every 6 shots, or need to swab the bore that often either. You could experiment and find out for yourself how many shots you could fire before the gun gets affected by fouling. My recommendation was offered to try to keep you shooting indefinitely, and liberal lubrication helps with that. I also enjoy cleaning guns, but most blackpowder shooters do. If you don't enjoy cleaning guns you should probably save the powder for your TC.

 

[Palladan44]

I've pondered on doing this for a long time but the potential for trouble outweighs any benefit. Just the dirtiness alone makes me say "no thanks" but again I have front stuffers to use BP out of.

I'd find an individual who could use it in a proper application, just my .02.

 

[Palladan44]

BP burns really slow as-is

I always thought it was a fast burning powder, somewhere about like Trail Boss or Clays... Just 3x- 4x more by weight for the same amount of energy.

 

[.38 Special]

The corrosiveness of blackpowder is overstated. As long as the fouling is mixed with oil or grease it is essentially harmless. And unlike smokeless fouling, plain old water removes bp residue entirely. I've cleaned S&W revolvers used with BP by removing the side plate, hosing everything out with a 50/50 mix of Ballistol and water, then blasting with brake cleaner and lightly lubing with modern gun oil.

The .38 was originally loaded with blackpowder. I have loaded many, many such rounds and have been impressed with them. Simply add enough powder so that the bullet compesses it a tenth of an inch or so. I do like bullets which carry a lot of lube, though. I doubt jacketed bullets are very good for the application, but have not tried them. I  have had very good results with paper cartridges in percussion revolvers by dipping the bullet in melted beeswax and mutton tallow. Part of me says that this is a completely ridiculous idea with jacketed bullets, but another part of me can't come up with an argument why it wouldn't work. If you try it, I'd like to hear about it.

Different blackpowder granulations for different bore sizes is another bit of "common knowledge" which has not held up to my experience. I guess I wouldn't use 4f in a cannon, but 3f works better than 2f in most of my guns, including those much larger than .50 caliber. I now keep one horn of Swiss 3f for nearly all my rifles, from .36 to .62, reverting back to 2f or 1.5 f only when the gun tells me that is what it wants.