.38 Special
- Thread starter PawDaddy
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tbeb
Member
Federal Nyclad 125 gr. lead hollowpoint. I believe Federal has discontinued this load. (ammoman.com web site shows they have some and it sells for $119 for 250 rds., shipping included.)
I presume this is for your new toy ...
It's O.K. to shoot some Plus-P loads through a later-issue K-frame like you have. I would seperate ammunition into two kinds - that for practice and that for carry.
You'll have to experiment a bit, but I think you'll find that the sights are regulated to point-of-aim/point-of-impact using standard loads with 158 grain bullets. If so, I'd use them for practice.
It isn't so much a matter of what the gun will stand up to as it is what your pocketbook can afford. Extensive use of top-of-the-line Plus-P can get expensive.
For carry, I'd test some lead semi-wadcutter hollow point Plus-P, also with 158 grain bullets and see where they printed on a target.
Another possibility is some of the standard stuff with 130 grain bullets for practice and a Plus-P hollow point with a bullet around the same weight. But I have a hunch these may not agree with your sights.
It's O.K. to shoot some Plus-P loads through a later-issue K-frame like you have. I would seperate ammunition into two kinds - that for practice and that for carry.
You'll have to experiment a bit, but I think you'll find that the sights are regulated to point-of-aim/point-of-impact using standard loads with 158 grain bullets. If so, I'd use them for practice.
It isn't so much a matter of what the gun will stand up to as it is what your pocketbook can afford. Extensive use of top-of-the-line Plus-P can get expensive.
For carry, I'd test some lead semi-wadcutter hollow point Plus-P, also with 158 grain bullets and see where they printed on a target.
Another possibility is some of the standard stuff with 130 grain bullets for practice and a Plus-P hollow point with a bullet around the same weight. But I have a hunch these may not agree with your sights.
mtnbkr
Member
For non +P carry, I like wadcutters.
For non +P plinking, I like whatever cheap 158gr reloads I can find or my own 158gr reloads.
Chris
For non +P plinking, I like whatever cheap 158gr reloads I can find or my own 158gr reloads.
Chris
Interesting. They used to say that those guns that had dash numbers after the model number could be used with limited amounts of Plus-P ammunition. Obviously they've been selling model 10-(whatever) revolvers to police departments for years knowing that they used Plus-P cartridges.
I suspect the new line is to convince people with older guns that they need to buy new ones.
I don't believe that the mainline ammunition makers are offering much in the way of hollow-points in standard loadings. Some of the smaller specialty companies may. Given the lower velocity of standard loadings - especially out of a two-inch barrel - I’d stick to an unjacketed soft lead, hollow-point bullet around 158 grains. If this couldn’t be found I’d go to a mid-range (factory) load using 148 grain full-wadcutters, or more likely handload my own 158 grain stuff.
Having said that I’d point out that I have a model 10-5/4 inch, that has shown no bad effects from an occasional cylinder full of Plus-P 158 grain lead hollow points
I suspect the new line is to convince people with older guns that they need to buy new ones.
I don't believe that the mainline ammunition makers are offering much in the way of hollow-points in standard loadings. Some of the smaller specialty companies may. Given the lower velocity of standard loadings - especially out of a two-inch barrel - I’d stick to an unjacketed soft lead, hollow-point bullet around 158 grains. If this couldn’t be found I’d go to a mid-range (factory) load using 148 grain full-wadcutters, or more likely handload my own 158 grain stuff.
Having said that I’d point out that I have a model 10-5/4 inch, that has shown no bad effects from an occasional cylinder full of Plus-P 158 grain lead hollow points
RON in PA
Member
I don't know who you spoke to at S&W, but the official poop from Smith has always been that K frames with the model number stamped in the crane was safe with +P ammo. This info goes back to the 1980s and has been printed in the American Rifleman.
farscott
Member
S&W keeps their manuals on-line in Adobe Acrobat (PDF) format. The manual states that K-frames manufactured after 1957 are suitable for +P ammo. They do not recommend +P+ ammo. Page 13 of the file has the relevant info.
The link is http://www.smith-wesson.com/CatalogManual/pdf/Revolver.pdf .
The link is http://www.smith-wesson.com/CatalogManual/pdf/Revolver.pdf .
Arts
Member
Federal Hydro-Shok JHP 110 grain rated for 1,000 fps at short range.
chaim
Member
Even going on the assumption that it isn't actually rated for +P ammo I wouldn't worry too much about it. It is a medium frame revolver. It can probably handle most +P loadings ok. What I would do is very rarely practice with +Ps, primarly practice with standard velocity ammo and use +Ps for defensive use. I doubt if a cylinder or two of +P's every few months (just enough to remain used to/proficient with +P's in it) will be enough to cause any problems.
However, if you want to stick with non-+Ps my favorite (and probably the best) is a LSWC-HP if you can find them. If not then go without the HP and get a lead semi-wadcutter. Same reason as liking this load (though in +P) in a 2" barrel. In a short barrel or with non-+P loadings, .38spl HPs are pretty notorious for not opening. If you use a regular HP and it doesn't, then what you have is basically ball ammo. If you use the wadcutter HP then if it doesn't open up then you at least have the full caliber sharp cornered shoulders, you have a full 158gr slug, and the taper up front will help with penatration. A SWC is probably the best non-expanding design for wounding thus in a HP round that might not expand I'd go with a SWC.
However, if you want to stick with non-+Ps my favorite (and probably the best) is a LSWC-HP if you can find them. If not then go without the HP and get a lead semi-wadcutter. Same reason as liking this load (though in +P) in a 2" barrel. In a short barrel or with non-+P loadings, .38spl HPs are pretty notorious for not opening. If you use a regular HP and it doesn't, then what you have is basically ball ammo. If you use the wadcutter HP then if it doesn't open up then you at least have the full caliber sharp cornered shoulders, you have a full 158gr slug, and the taper up front will help with penatration. A SWC is probably the best non-expanding design for wounding thus in a HP round that might not expand I'd go with a SWC.
Tommy Gunn
Member
Better that you practice with the loads that you will carry.
Standard .38 Special rounds will do the job, its all about shot placement. I would go with the standard 158gr SWC rounds.
Unless you plan to only practice a little, or are well healed in the money department, practicing with what you carry may not make sense, and isn’t really necessary in many cases.
Years ago many police departments would train and qualify using mid-range .38 wad-cutters, usually loaded with a very light charge of powder to save money. Then they’d switch to something much hotter - including Plus-P - when they went back on duty. Because of the difference in recoil and point-of-aim vs. impact this wasn’t a good idea. Too many officers were able to qualify with the light loads that couldn’t hit the side of a barn with what they carried on duty.
However it doesn’t have to be this way. If one’s practice ammunition is an approximate equal of what they carry that’s good enough and far less expensive.
In this instance the first thing that should be done it to determined what load hits closest to the point-of-aim. (Do remember that an S&W model 10 has fixed sights.) Experience tells me it will probably (but not necessarily) be a standard load with a 158-grain bullet.
Hopefully PawDaddy will find what he’s looking for - a standard load that he’s comfortable using for serious carry. If not, he will find the recoil and difference between bullet impact points to be negligible between a Plus-P load and a standard one using a slug of similar weight, largely because he is using a steel, K-frame revolver rather then one of the smaller ultra-lightweights.
In any case there is no reason to buy expensive commercial “carry†ammunition to practice with. A paper target, gong, plate or whatever will never know the difference between a lead round-nose or SWC going 800FPS vs. a similar hollow-point Plus-P going 900FPS.
But your pocketbook will ……
I know. I’ve been doing this for around a half-century.
Years ago many police departments would train and qualify using mid-range .38 wad-cutters, usually loaded with a very light charge of powder to save money. Then they’d switch to something much hotter - including Plus-P - when they went back on duty. Because of the difference in recoil and point-of-aim vs. impact this wasn’t a good idea. Too many officers were able to qualify with the light loads that couldn’t hit the side of a barn with what they carried on duty.
However it doesn’t have to be this way. If one’s practice ammunition is an approximate equal of what they carry that’s good enough and far less expensive.
In this instance the first thing that should be done it to determined what load hits closest to the point-of-aim. (Do remember that an S&W model 10 has fixed sights.) Experience tells me it will probably (but not necessarily) be a standard load with a 158-grain bullet.
Hopefully PawDaddy will find what he’s looking for - a standard load that he’s comfortable using for serious carry. If not, he will find the recoil and difference between bullet impact points to be negligible between a Plus-P load and a standard one using a slug of similar weight, largely because he is using a steel, K-frame revolver rather then one of the smaller ultra-lightweights.
In any case there is no reason to buy expensive commercial “carry†ammunition to practice with. A paper target, gong, plate or whatever will never know the difference between a lead round-nose or SWC going 800FPS vs. a similar hollow-point Plus-P going 900FPS.
But your pocketbook will ……
I know. I’ve been doing this for around a half-century.
bpisler
Member
Hornaday makes a standard 38 spl with 125,140 and 158gr XTP bullets.In a recent handguns magazine they tested loads from a 2" smith and found out the 125gr XTP was faster than some of the +P loads.I would call S&W again and try speaking to someone else, just let them know that you called before and want to be certain of the proper ammo for your gun.
Jeff OTMG
Member
RBCD. Althought the velocities are up there, they do not exceed standard pressure.
38 Spl. 60 gr. TFSP 1705 fps / 385 flbs
38 Spl. Tactical 50 gr. TPD 1850+fps / 418+ flbs
Those velocities are out of a S&W 2" J-frame. The 50 gr bullet sheds velocity more quickly so at 15 yards the 60 gr slug actually has more energy.
www.rbcd.net
38 Spl. 60 gr. TFSP 1705 fps / 385 flbs
38 Spl. Tactical 50 gr. TPD 1850+fps / 418+ flbs
Those velocities are out of a S&W 2" J-frame. The 50 gr bullet sheds velocity more quickly so at 15 yards the 60 gr slug actually has more energy.
www.rbcd.net
twoblink
Member
semi-wads or wads seem good to carry also..
158grainer wads.. They don't expand.. but then again, they don't shrink either!
Wads, (if shot placement is good) will lead to quite a bit of bleeding if needed for self defense..
Also, clean cuts on the paper X..
158grainer wads.. They don't expand.. but then again, they don't shrink either!
Wads, (if shot placement is good) will lead to quite a bit of bleeding if needed for self defense..
Also, clean cuts on the paper X..
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