nero45acp
Member
Any opinions on who makes the best/most effective .38 Special (non +P) round for defense? I have a small amount of Federal Nyclads, but they are no longer being made. Thanks
nero
nero
Best .38 Special (non +P) Round for Defense?
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Mannlicher
Member
I have always liked the Nyclads, but I have been loading the Speer 146 grain SWCHP again. I found I had stored a lot of these, and have not loaded any in years. I favor SR4756 powder. With 10 grains, from a three inch Model 60, if I recall, the velocity was around1000 fps.
jeff-10
Member
I've always wondered how the 130gr FMJ ould do, since it pretty much mimics the performance of the original military 38 round. With non +p velocitys I doub't you would get much if any expansion from a snub so I do not know if a jhp is needed.
tbeb
Member
Ask "WESHOOT2" to reload something for you. (Ask him about the reload using a 140 gr. XTP hollowpoint that his wife uses.)
Another new non+p load is the Corbon DPX. It uses a 110 gr. bullet that does about 1000 fps from a 2" barrel. It penetrates 12"-16" and expands to .50"-.60", both in bare gelatin and gelatin covered with 4 layers of denim. It is expensive at $16.95 plus shipping for 20 rounds.
Another reload that is worth considering is a 148 gr. hollowbase wadcutter loaded backwards, to a velocity of 750-850 fps. I'm guessing terminal performance would be similar to the non+P Nyclad 125 gr. lead hollowpoint.
Another new non+p load is the Corbon DPX. It uses a 110 gr. bullet that does about 1000 fps from a 2" barrel. It penetrates 12"-16" and expands to .50"-.60", both in bare gelatin and gelatin covered with 4 layers of denim. It is expensive at $16.95 plus shipping for 20 rounds.
Another reload that is worth considering is a 148 gr. hollowbase wadcutter loaded backwards, to a velocity of 750-850 fps. I'm guessing terminal performance would be similar to the non+P Nyclad 125 gr. lead hollowpoint.
Jim March
Member
Ummmm...if the gun is old and/or delicate, a 110 grain jacketed load even if still under "+P" spec is going to be harsh. Personally, I'd think twice on that Cor-Bon for those situations.
(Sidenote: I really want to see independent test data on the DPX 110. If it *works* as claimed, it's a killer alternative for those wanting low recoil either because they're very recoil sensitive (arthritis? etc...) OR they've bought one of the 10oz superlight aluminum S&Ws and the recoil is too harsh for 'em with +Ps. There is a NEED in this world for an effective "granny gun load".)
The Safestop makes sense for most folks. Handloading a 148 lead hollow-base wadcutter backwards at around 775 - 800fps (from a 2") with a careful powder selection makes a LOT of sense, if you're willing to risk the "handload evil thing" in court. (In this case, it wouldn't be too bad: you explain that modern defense loads are too stout for this old gun, so you optimized something that would work at reduced pressures, speeds and energy levels...)
All that said: the Winchester and Remington 158grain plain lead hollowpoints may be "+P" but they're still pretty mild on the gun for a number of reasons...soft lead isn't stressful on the forcing cone, neither are the heavier weight slugs if the energy is reasonable. I would guess that even a 1920s-era M&P or equivelent in GOOD shape, thoroughly examined and tested first with mild 148 lead target wadcutters or similar, could handle a small diet of the 158 lead +Ps. SMALL diet...like 20 or 30 to dial in point of aim, and then a cylinder or two a month to keep in practice, do the rest of your practice in 148 lead target wadcutter (mildest factory 38spl made). I would still measure things like endshake and cylinder gap before and after such mild uses of mild "+P" just to set my mind at ease.
Now, I'm not *certain* of that, and somebody may be along to say otherwise and I'll listen carefully. Make your own decision after inspecting YOUR gun if pressing an antique into a defensive role. But I suspect I'm right. I've seen convincing evidence that 1920s/30s/etc loads called "standard pressure" back then would be called "+P" today
.
(Sidenote: I really want to see independent test data on the DPX 110. If it *works* as claimed, it's a killer alternative for those wanting low recoil either because they're very recoil sensitive (arthritis? etc...) OR they've bought one of the 10oz superlight aluminum S&Ws and the recoil is too harsh for 'em with +Ps. There is a NEED in this world for an effective "granny gun load".)
The Safestop makes sense for most folks. Handloading a 148 lead hollow-base wadcutter backwards at around 775 - 800fps (from a 2") with a careful powder selection makes a LOT of sense, if you're willing to risk the "handload evil thing" in court. (In this case, it wouldn't be too bad: you explain that modern defense loads are too stout for this old gun, so you optimized something that would work at reduced pressures, speeds and energy levels...)
All that said: the Winchester and Remington 158grain plain lead hollowpoints may be "+P" but they're still pretty mild on the gun for a number of reasons...soft lead isn't stressful on the forcing cone, neither are the heavier weight slugs if the energy is reasonable. I would guess that even a 1920s-era M&P or equivelent in GOOD shape, thoroughly examined and tested first with mild 148 lead target wadcutters or similar, could handle a small diet of the 158 lead +Ps. SMALL diet...like 20 or 30 to dial in point of aim, and then a cylinder or two a month to keep in practice, do the rest of your practice in 148 lead target wadcutter (mildest factory 38spl made). I would still measure things like endshake and cylinder gap before and after such mild uses of mild "+P" just to set my mind at ease.
Now, I'm not *certain* of that, and somebody may be along to say otherwise and I'll listen carefully. Make your own decision after inspecting YOUR gun if pressing an antique into a defensive role. But I suspect I'm right. I've seen convincing evidence that 1920s/30s/etc loads called "standard pressure" back then would be called "+P" today
.nero45acp
Member
Thanks for all the helpful replies. The reason I asked about the best .38 special (non +P) ammo is I want the maximum effectiveness with the least amount of recoil. I currently use Federal Nyclads (non +P) in a 70 year old Colt Det. Special. I've always felt the non +P Nyclads were the best "balanced" cartridge for my older Det. Special. But unfortunately Federal no longer makes the Nyclad, and my supply is very limited.
I'm thinking of retiring my Det. Special and replacing it with a Ruger SP101 3" .357mag. with Hogue rubber grips (as a nightstand gun). I realize that the SP101 can easily handle the +P ammo, but I would still prefer to minimize recoil in order to maximize controllability and accurate follow-up shots. Though I don't want to sacrifice too much in the way of cartridge effectiveness. Any other/follow-up opinions/advice would be appreciated.
nero
I'm thinking of retiring my Det. Special and replacing it with a Ruger SP101 3" .357mag. with Hogue rubber grips (as a nightstand gun). I realize that the SP101 can easily handle the +P ammo, but I would still prefer to minimize recoil in order to maximize controllability and accurate follow-up shots. Though I don't want to sacrifice too much in the way of cartridge effectiveness. Any other/follow-up opinions/advice would be appreciated.
nero
Jim March
Member
Nero, between the grip design and the *weight*, shooting 38+P in an SP101 is an extremely pleasant (and FAST) experience.
Unless you've got medical issues going on, I think you'll be VERY happy with, say, the new Speer 135grain 38+P in the Ruger.
The ONLY 38+P that might give you "recoil issues" in an SP101 is the new Bufallo Bore stuff. Their new 158 lead pulls 1,000fps from a 2" barrel, about 350ft/lbs energy, into mild 357 territory. Oh, and Cor-Bon used to sell basically the same thing.
Short of those...there's been a revolution lately in 38+P ammo quality. If at ALL possible, you should take full advantage of same.
Unless you've got medical issues going on, I think you'll be VERY happy with, say, the new Speer 135grain 38+P in the Ruger.
The ONLY 38+P that might give you "recoil issues" in an SP101 is the new Bufallo Bore stuff. Their new 158 lead pulls 1,000fps from a 2" barrel, about 350ft/lbs energy, into mild 357 territory. Oh, and Cor-Bon used to sell basically the same thing.
Short of those...there's been a revolution lately in 38+P ammo quality. If at ALL possible, you should take full advantage of same.
nero45acp
Member
Thank you, Jim. I don't have any medical problems limiting my cartridge choices. I enjoy shooting .45acp out of 1911's (though my favorite is 9mm Gov't models). Perhaps I'm just "chasing after rainbows" by trying to find that perfect non +P .38 Special round. I will investigate/tryout the +P ammo options more after I pick-up the SP101. Though it will probably be a month before I can afford to, a few days ago I won a gunbroker auction for a Blue 70 series Colt Gov't Model in 9mm in excellent condition!! Yaahhhoooo!! Got word it arrived today, gotta go to Kastle Keep Firearms to pick it up this afternoon! Thanks again!
nero
nero
atlctyslkr
Member
I bought a box of 110gr Silvertips for my mom to use in her older S&W Model 38 Airweight. She says they feel much better and she's pretty accurate with them. I had to tell her to save 20 of them for their intended purpose!
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