38 Super Dilemma

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classcpl

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Need some help from you 38 super fans....

I've decided that I must have a 1911 chambered in 38 Super and Ive narrowed my choices down to either a Rock Island 1911A1 or Taurus PT1911. My budget is $500 and both of these handguns fall in that range.

From reading online the RIA seems to get very favorable reviews. It's a bone-stock GI type 1911 that would lend itself well to future customization so that I could eventually end up with exactly what I want. This will, of course, cost extra though. RIA customer service seems to get good reviews online as well. Buds has them for $412 shipped.

The Taurus PT1911 on the other hand offers pretty much most of the features I would end up adding to the RIA 1911 and has the benefit of also being stainless steel and is only $82 more at $494. There are some things I don't like about the Taurus like the Ambi thumb safety (easy fix) and the fact that the slide looks like a freaking billboard add for Taurus USA ( not really fixable to the best of my knowledge.) Also, I am having a hard time finding a really detailed review of the PT1911 in 38 Super. 45ACP reviews seem pretty positive but it's not the same.

I have read that the PT1911 chamber is not fully supported. I will be handloading for this handgun and Im not sure if this is an issue.

So.....please feel free to chime in especially if you have experience with either of these handguns. ( the PT1911 in particular.) I'm aware that there are better 1911's out there but these two fit my budget.

Btw...I really did consider the Witness Match Elite in 38 super, but I guess I just have my heart set on a 1911 platform. Life hasn't been the same since I sold my Para SSP.
 
I have an RIA in nickel that my wife has adopted. She is getting pretty accurate with it. Bone stock, small sights but she loves it anyway. It had several FTFs during the first 300 rounds. I've had the feed ramp polished since then and the last 200 rounds or so have been better.

Now looking at a Fusion in 38 super. Barely missed a Colt for sale locally.

I don't think you can go wrong with the RIA. I have no experience with Taurus but for some reason I can't bring myself to buy one but that's just me.
 
I'd definately go with the RIA. I don't think either of them use a supported chamber, and it's not really a big deal. :)
 
I would say go with the RIA as well. I worked on one for a friend of mine and I was very impressed with the quality of materials used and the overall fit and finish of the gun. An extremely reliable performer and quite accurate as well.
 
Former Taurus owner here. I would not own one of their autos to save my life. If you gave me one for free I'd duracoat it some obnoxious color and give it away as a gag gift (which is what we did with one last year). I've heard that the 1911 parts are proprietary to Taurus 1911s, making further customization problematic.

Now--take this from a guy who has been there--get what you want on a 1911 from the factory. Most if not all of the problems that I see with 1911s in USPSA and IDPA come from guys who have modded up their guns. Guys who shoot factory built guns don't generally have a problem. Save your pennies and get a Springfield :Loaded" or "Range Officer", you'll be a lot happier.
 
An unsupported chamber is a big deal if you plan on loading hot or using +p ammo for HD/SD. The ramped barrel also aids in feeding. If I was looking at a budget 38 Super today I would look at building one rather than buying a complete gun. It would cost a bit mofre but your would have a much higher quality gun in the end.
 
I love my RIA 1911s but I went with the Taurus in .38Super because I need the better sights that it has. If RIA had the .38Super in their "Tactical" configuration it'd have been no contest.

While I have only run about 300 rounds through my PT1911 .38Super, it is a sweet shooter and has had no failures of any kind with a box of each of the factory ammo I could find and 50 of my reloads while working up.

I have read that the PT1911 chamber is not fully supported. I will be handloading for this handgun and Im not sure if this is an issue
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Its not an issue if you stay within SAAMI specs. I like a 124gr FMJ bullet with 8.7 gr Blue dot -- lets everyone on the firing line know I'm shooting more than 9mm :) But if you plan to go for 9mm major this gun is a terrible choice.

--wally.
 
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Hk Dan said:
I've heard that the 1911 parts are proprietary to Taurus 1911s, making further customization problematic.
Click to expand...

Taurus isn't the only one. Dozens of companies make 1911s these days, and nearly each one uses some sort of proprietary part somewhere on the gun. Sometimes it's a part the shooter wouldn't care about. Sometimes it can be swapped out quite easily and replaced with something standard, like with Springfield's mainspring housing. Sometimes it can't, and you're stuck with what it comes with.

For example upgraded sights are often proprietary cut. Pistolsmiths used to cut a slide to fit Smith and Wesson K-frame adjustables. Once the market demanded something better on a large scale, Novak and Heinie are two sight upgrades that became somewhat standard, and they each use a different cut. But nowadays there's no telling what a slide is cut to take. Kimber is famous - infamous - for using proprietary cuts. Once it's cut, you're paying Kimber - directly or indirectly - to put something else on the gun. Or when it comes time to replace those fading tritium sights in 10 years.


Sights are merely one example. Beavertail grip safeties . . . the type of cut for a supported barrel . . . the internal safeties . . . on and on. Some companies stick close to the industry standard patterns. Others go hog wild and almost nothing else will work except their in-house pattern parts, which is why they do it - you have to return to them for the business. And that really sucks if the parts they make are junk and you can't upgrade from it at all.


If you're thinking that at any point in the future you'd upgrade the gun - especially with better sights or a different grip safety - stick close to the original pattern. Bare-bones Springfield GI models and Colt are the easiest to upgrade. The tolerances are known by the pistolsmiths who commonly work on them. And they don't already have cuts on them for proprietary parts, which is the real problem you'll face if you buy something already "upgraded" with the hopes of changing it to something else later.

classcpl said:
I have read that the PT1911 chamber is not fully supported. I will be handloading for this handgun and Im not sure if this is an issue.
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As long as you're content not pushing the 38 Super past +P 9mm performance levels, you'll be fine. If you want to take full advantage of the round's potential, you really should use a supported barrel. The frame can be cut to take an aftermarket supported barrel, but you do need to start out with a good, known quality frame first. Nowlin and Schuemann are popular, and kept well-stocked in the Brownell's catalog.
 
Good option, Lunie. You can get the 9mm in tactical, then add a 38 Super barrel. I asked the guys in the secret place in the desert about that once. At that time they would not do the conversion, but they would sell the 38 Super barrel (about $65 if I remember correctly).
I did convert a different brand and all it took was the barrel and a 14lb spring. Ejector and extractor worked fine, but they don't always as I understand.
 
Cemetery21 said:
Good option, Lunie. You can get the 9mm in tactical, then add a 38 Super barrel. I asked the guys in the secret place in the desert about that once. At that time they would not do the conversion, but they would sell the 38 Super barrel (about $65 if I remember correctly).
I did convert a different brand and all it took was the barrel and a 14lb spring. Ejector and extractor worked fine, but they don't always as I understand.
Click to expand...

Hello again, sir.

I'm just guessing here, but a handgun set up for 9mm, and with a .38 Super barrel installed, would probably function just fine if a person were to use the rimless SuperComp brass. (This is without changing extractors or tweaking them.) Even if you did need a different extractor to run .38 S, swapping them out is pretty simple.

Just for grins, here is the website for the folks who run that secret location out in Nevada. They list FS .45 ACP barrels for $40. I'm guessing you could call and ask about .38 Super barrels.

http://www.advancedtactical.com/adv...ategory_id=30&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53
 
Thanks for your input everyone.

Yeah I saw that CFS has the RIA for less than Buds, but I've never dealt with them before and the seem to get some mixed reviews online. Ive dealt with Buds a few times and have had no problems. Have you dealt with CFS? If so, how would you rate the experience?

I do wish that RIA offered a Tactical model in 38 super. your suggestion about a Barrel swap might be a good choice. As far as the supported chamber, I would like to develop some hot loads to take full advantage of the potential of this cartridge so that may bear some consideration. Would this require an RIA barrel or could another brand be used?

Seems like I have some thinking to do....
 
I would like to develop some hot loads to take full advantage of the potential of this cartridge so that may bear some consideration. Would this require an RIA barrel or could another brand be used?
Click to expand...

The ramped barrel requires a different frame than the standard. I think there then are two variations of the ramped barrels, Nowlin, and one other slightly different. You need the frame cut to match the barrel.

Can a gunsmith cut a standard frame for a ramped barrel, someone else will have to answer, as this is a level of modification at which I decide to just buy something else instead.

I've bought several guns and lots of parts and ammo from Centerfire Systems, never a problem. The only thing that irks is their prices listed are "cash" so they add 3% for credit card. I guess you could save this if you did some slower "cash equivalent" transaction. But you get a lot of safety buying on-line by credit card that is not worth 3% to give up IMHO.
 
classcpl said:
Thanks for your input everyone.

Yeah I saw that CFS has the RIA for less than Buds, but I've never dealt with them before and the seem to get some mixed reviews online. Ive dealt with Buds a few times and have had no problems. Have you dealt with CFS? If so, how would you rate the experience?

I do wish that RIA offered a Tactical model in 38 super. your suggestion about a Barrel swap might be a good choice. As far as the supported chamber, I would like to develop some hot loads to take full advantage of the potential of this cartridge so that may bear some consideration. Would this require an RIA barrel or could another brand be used?

Seems like I have some thinking to do....
Click to expand...
I have not personally dealt with CenterFire... I just usually go to look at the RIA stuff on their website. I don't remember for certain, but I believe there are several FFL's in my area that purchase from them.

I just pointed you at them because I remembered they tend to be less expensive. If they have a spotty rep (which I haven't heard of, or bothered to research) they may not be a good choice for you.

Best of luck with whatever you decide. :)
 
That one on gunbroker has me wondering...

You some kind of South American drug baron? :rolleyes: Just kidding.

I've actually seen a couple of the RIA .38 Supers in LGS's for less than $400. Come to think of it, I'm not sure why I didn't buy one of 'em... :cuss:

I did see a Colt that would have been pretty cool. I liked the markings on the slide. OTOH, it looked fairly loose and shot out. I forget how much they were asking for it, but it was a lot...
 
You cannot go wrong with the RIA. I have had one for about three years (GI model, nickel plated). It has never given me a hiccup. The small sights do take a bit of getting used to, though.
 
Whatever you get, make sure it's bright nickel, with white mother-of-toilet-seat grips. No Super 38 should be blued, or have tasteful grips.
 
wally said:
I think there then are two variations of the ramped barrels, Nowlin, and one other slightly different.
Click to expand...

Schuemann has a really good informational page showing the difference in the two ramp styles.

http://www.schuemann.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=fcoL/qEtE9Y=&tabid=67&mid=444

classcpl said:
As far as the supported chamber, I would like to develop some hot loads to take full advantage of the potential of this cartridge so that may bear some consideration. Would this require an RIA barrel or could another brand be used?
Click to expand...

It's going to require a supported barrel to do it safely. Guys on the competiton circuit got "superface" trying to make major using 38 Super without it. You're going to have to buy an aftermarket ramped barrel and have the frame cut to that ramp style. I am not aware of any of the manufacturers competing in the "bargain" 1911 price points offering the guns already cut for and using ramped - fully supported - barrels.

It can be done aftermarket. I have one done. I'll caution you with the same advice my gunsmith cautioned me when I went looking for a gun to give him to work on. Buy something of known quality, that follows the original design tolerances faithfully. He told me point blank, get a basic Colt or an old Springfield.

When a gunsmith puts a frame or slide in a machine to begin cutting on it, he measures certain known reference points, and indexes off those to make his cuts. If he gets the part, and the measurements are out of spec, he'll reject that part and use another. That's no big deal when it's a new barrel, and he can return it to the supplier for a refund. But when we're talking about something like a receiver, or an entire gun . . . he'll often just tell you he's sorry and reject the work.


I don't know how faithful RIA is to known shop blueprints in the areas that matter. Or what their tolerances are. People were surprised when they discovered Norincos were known for sticking close to the original blueprints and staying within tolerance. The best advice I can give you is to identify a gunsmith who you intend to use to cut that ramped barrel in for you, and ask him if he'll work on an RIA before you buy it, not after.
 
Its really hard to say :
"Save your money and get a...."
Click to expand...
, As most you guys know , once we get it in our system to buy , we pretty much already know what we want , and we really dont want to wait !

As far as the 38 Super goes , I would be hesitant to go with the Taurus because of the proprietry parts , I dont know too much about the Rock Island , now if American Tactical had the 38 super Titan 1911 .3.18" ,I'd be all over that, I am still gonna get the .45acp

I see on Slick Guns they have several 38 Supers to choose from especially in Rock island and Taurus , the Taurus has the gold accents , which look nice , both of these weapons are relatively cheap as well, if your lookg at under $400 this is what you want http://www.slickguns.com/category/hand-guns?caliber=29
 
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Lunie said:
I'm just guessing here, but a handgun set up for 9mm, and with a .38 Super barrel installed, would probably function just fine if a person were to use the rimless SuperComp brass. (This is without changing extractors or tweaking them.) Even if you did need a different extractor to run .38 S, swapping them out is pretty simple.
Click to expand...

9 times out of 10 it works just fine. Some 9mm 1911's come set up with extended ejectors, which are too long for 38 Super cases. Just depends on who made the gun.

Most extractors won't notice the difference in rim diameter and won't need any attention, some might need adjusted just a slight bit. Mine goes through rimmed 38 Super, 9mm, 9x23, or 38 SuperComp brass without any adjustment needed at all. I've never tried any of the other 38 Super rim variations. I have been quite happy with Starline SuperComp brass.

The only piece of equipment that notices the difference between the semi-rimmed 38 Super and rimless SuperComp brass is my Dillon.
 
BullfrogKen said:
9 times out of 10 it works just fine. Some 9mm 1911's come set up with extended ejectors, which are too long for 38 Super cases. Just depends on who made the gun.

Most extractors won't notice the difference in rim diameter and won't need any attention, some might need adjusted just a slight bit. Mine goes through rimmed 38 Super, 9mm, 9x23, or 38 SuperComp brass without any adjustment needed at all. I've never tried any of the other 38 Super rim variations. I have been quite happy with Starline SuperComp brass.

The only piece of equipment that notices the difference between the semi-rimmed 38 Super and rimless SuperComp brass is my Dillon.
Click to expand...
I'm surprised the ejectors would be an issue (instead of the extractor)... The 9mm and .38 S are fairly close when it comes to the rim diameter. 9mm is .394", and .38 S is .406" according to the dimensions the Sierra 5th Ed gives. Anyway, thanks for the info. :)

Does the SuperComp brass need a different shellholder?
 
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