38 super for self defense?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Not So Super

I have always liked the SUPER, but it does have some negatives.

One reason for the .357 SIG is that the SUPER is too long for a 9m.m. sized gun. The same problem prevented the .45ACP and 10m.m. from being used in many of the 9m.m. pistols out there during the 1980's.

During the 1970's, a somewhat popular conversion of the SMITH & WESSON model 39 used a new barrel and extractor in .38 SUPER. The ammo could only be used with 90 grain bullets or the round would be to long to function.

Another problem could be the rim. The SUPER is based on the earlier .38 ACP. Both rounds have a semi-rimless case if I remember correctly. No big deal in a single stack, but it could cause feeding problems in a double stack magazine.

Last, is the liability problem. If you shoot some SUPER in an old COLT, it may explode. For ammo manufacturers, that is not nearly as appealing as a new high pressure round that will only be loaded in modern guns.

Just my take on the SUPER.

Jim
 
"I guess the gun companies always want to market something "new and better" even it it really isn't."

They were looking to push a 9mm bullet faster in a 9mm/.40 s&w sized pistol.
Click to expand...


Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
 
Could anyone tell me where the Taurus .38 Super head spaces at? The cartridge rim or the head? I'm wondering if shooting 9X23 out of it is doable.
 
Wow, awesome thread...an oldie but a goodie resurrected. :D

The contemporary .38 Super ain't yur granddaddy's .38 Super. By that, I mean that the contemporary factory-loaded ammunition, most of it, has been dumbed-down to near 9mm levels.

But, when the .38 Super is handloaded at 1,594 FPS, with a 124 gr. projectile, the round truly can go head to head with nearly any other contemporary, autoloader rounds such as .357 Sig, etc. I will end my post with saying, when I bought my Colt 1911A1 in .38 Super, I made certain to get the 5" barrel.

Great thread!

Doc2005
 
Hello. The Corbon 115-gr. and 125-gr. JHP +P is pretty hot in my opinion. The DPX is not quite as "warm" and according to Mike Shovel of Corbon, 38 Super DPX (like other DPX rounds) is loaded not so much to maximum attainable velocity but to meet/exceed FBI testing protocols on expansion and penetration as well as expansion after penetrating various barriers.

If interested, here is some information on Corbon Super 38 ammunition:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon 38 Super Ammo Tests.htm

On a different day and with different lots of ammunition, the same 5" bbl'd 38 Super averaged 1467 ft/sec with Corbon 115-gr. +P and 1448 ft/sec with the 125-gr. JHP +P.

Best.
 
I absolutly love mine. Its in my night-time security rotation. Of course I hand load, but I was able to get a Speer 124gr Gold Dot to 1460FPS very easily. I changed my recoil spring and hammer spring for good measure, and now the brass drops at my feet. Its an incrediable round with loads of power. It always draws attention at the range too.
 
Will the extra .5 inches give me a speed boost worth noting?

No. You may even get less velocity than you're getting now depending on a variety of factors.

The 38 Super is a decent SD round and as someone mentioned had a bit of popularity with IPSC shooters who could make major with less recoil. This was kind of trumped when the 9x24 came on the scene.

The lack of popularity of teh 38 Super is probably due to accuracy problems (it is a semi-rimmed cartridge) with many guns and the few choices in commercial ammo compared to 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP etc.
 
Excellent self-defense round and ammo is readily available and just about the same price as .45acp (well maybe a tad higher but not much).
 
38 super is a great round, Winchester silvertips or the new Corbon dpx loaded hot. 1911 feel and familiarity. Ten round mags. Should work just fine.
I have a pre war one that has been in the family since the forties. Great pistol.
 
Last, is the liability problem. If you shoot some SUPER in an old COLT, it may explode. For ammo manufacturers, that is not nearly as appealing as a new high pressure round that will only be loaded in modern guns.
Click to expand...

This is not much of a problem. No one has manufactured a gun in .38acp sine about 1930.

Siulvertips are anemic; not much better than a 9mm+P.
Click to expand...

Which really ain't so bad.

The lack of popularity of teh 38 Super is probably due to accuracy problems (it is a semi-rimmed cartridge) with many guns
Click to expand...

Actually the Super is considered one of the more accurate rounds available. Since the mid 1980s or so all manufacturers of guns for the Super have seated the rounds on the case mouth rather than the semi-rim. The change cleared up accuracy problems which some guns had. In the 80s and 90s the Super dominated the top ranks of competitive shooting. It still has a large presence today.

It's also a mistaken opinion (only conjecture) to believe that the semi rim is a problem in double stack guns. There is no evidence for this opinion. Para Ord and Tanfoglio have been producing double stack guns in 38 Super for a chunk of years now with no major problems.

tipoc
 
The thread that would not die!!!!

Old thread, but still a good topic of discussion I suppose.

My 2 cent's worth....

Since the advent of the .357Sig I really don't see the need for the .38 Super.
But to each his own.
 
Seriously?

The 38 Super handles heavier loads better. And the .357 Sig is a reloaders nightmare. No carbide dies, so you've got to lube them all. And VERY limited bullet selection. The short neck doesn't have much neck tension on the bullet, so bullet set-back is a real danger with the wrong component. And given magazines of the same height, more 38 Supers will fit in the magazine than .357 Sigs.
 
Since the advent of the .357Sig I really don't see the need for the .38 Super.
Click to expand...

Provocative comment and meant to be I suppose. The thing is serious shooters know a good round when they see it and don't begrudge a good round sticking around even if there are other rounds that can do many of the same things.

Let's run with EasyGs logic; "Since the advent of x round I don't see the need for the 10mm" or the 44Spl. or the 9mm, or the 41 Magnum or a few other rounds. When the 44 Magnum appeared some thought the 44 Spl. was dead. But it wasn't.

The appearance of the .357 Sig will not spell the death of the 9mm will it? Nope so it won't mean the end of the 38 Super.

Fact is the .357 Sig appeared in 1994. In the last 16 years the popularity of the .38 Super has grown. There are better commercial loads available for it now than 16 years ago. More companies produce guns chambered in .38 Super than 16 years ago. So if the Sig round was going to supplant the Super seems it got off to a bad start doing it.

Nope the Super, like the .44 Spl. the 10mm and the 41 Magnum will stick around. It's proven itself since 1929 as too good to die. In 80 years we will see where the .357 Sig is.

tipoc
 
The Super will run a 125gr bullet to 1600fps with 10.9gr of N105 per the 3rd edition of VV load manual.....that's pretty hard to beat. And no dicking around with a bottle neck case.

Tony
 
And the .357 Sig is a reloaders nightmare. No carbide dies, so you've got to lube them all. And VERY limited bullet selection. The short neck doesn't have much neck tension on the bullet, so bullet set-back is a real danger with the wrong component.
Click to expand...
I reload the 357SIG on a regular basis. The "nightmare" part keeps getting thrown around and is WAY overblown.

If you use a .40 carbide sizer, its one extra step, and no lube is required. If you use a proper powder and load, even if there was a neck tension issue (so far I have yet to see it), it would be a moot point, as the powder charge keeps the bullet from setting back. 13.0 grains of AA#9 is a compressed load, there is no place for the bullet to go but out, and so far, I've yet to have a bullet fall out of a case.

They do have a somewhat limited bullet selection. The 125 grain bullet is basically caliber specific, due to its shape. The shape or ogive of the standard, lighter 9mm bullets is not quite right, and the case neck cant grab onto them when the correct OAL is met. You can use standard 9mm 147 grain bullets without issue, as they are basically the same shape as the 125 357SIG bullets. I havent loaded anything lighter than the 125 grain bullets, but Double tap does offer a 115 grain loading, so they too are around. I dont know what bullet they are using, but they seem to have it worked out.

It seems a lot of people dont like the 357SIG for some reason, and you always get the same old, grabbing at straws reasons, why its not a good round. I dont know why all the hate, but it is what it is I suppose. The round does what it set out to do, which is duplicate the 125 grain 357MAG loading, and does it in high cap, 9mm sized guns, that are at this point, readily available pretty much everywhere you go, and thats both guns and ammo.

I cant remember the last time I saw a .38 Super or 10mm on a shelf in a gun shop, and their ammo also seems to be less available then the 357SIG. Even during the worst of the ammo shortage, every Walmart around here had a couple of boxes of 357IG on the shelves, and that was when everything else was gone.

As it stands, the 357SIG is easily surpassing the 38 Super and 10mm, and other than maybe use as a games gun, I dont see the .38 Super or 10mm ever being a threat to the 357SIG in real world use as a personal/duty weapon.
 
Last edited:
I cant remember the last time I saw a .38 Super or 10mm on a shelf in a gun shop, and their ammo also seems to be less available then the 357SIG.
Click to expand...

Ammo for both is readily available on line and at gun shows if one does not reload and if your local store don't carry it. In the south west and west .38 Super is seen more on store shelves than some other areas of the country.

As I mentioned earlier the Super is a round (like the 10mm, the 41 Mag and the 44 Spl.) which has been a niche round for a number of decades. The last Federal law enforcement agency to use the Super was the Border Patrol which had it as one of their rounds accepted for carry up till the time, a few years back, where they were merged and had to standardize weapons and calibers and went with the .40 S&W.

The Super has stuck around, not because it's more powerful than other rounds or better than others, but because it's a good round in it's own right, legendary, and it's home is the 1911.

The .357 Sig does not threaten the 38 Super anymore than it threatens the 40 S&W or the 9mm. It Sig does not threaten them and it does not threaten the Super. More companies carry more loads for the Super now than when this thread began in 2006.

Thing is if folks like the Sig round more power to ya! Liking the Sig does not take away from the Super. The latter is it's own round.

We've sat through this movie before. The .40 S&W (introduced in 1990) was supposed to threaten the 9mm or the .45acp a decade ago. But neither of those rounds is knocked out. This is no knock on the 40S&W which is a proven round and seems more versatile than the Sig round and more powerful over a wider spectrum of bullet weights.

In it's own right the Super is an excellent round. It's useful for self defense and for hunting deer sized game. It is accurate, easy to reload, and can handle a variety of bullet weights from 90 gr. to 170 or so and does well with them. They've been making guns and ammo for it for 80 years. It ain't going away. The Super operates at lower pressures than the 357 Sig round or the .40S&W you get the benefit of this with the Super.

tipoc
 
Last edited:
The Super has stuck around, not because it's more powerful than other rounds or better than others, but because it's a good round in it's own right, legendary, and it's home is the 1911.
Click to expand...
As long as your a fan of the 1911, I suppose your OK. I know there are a few others floating around, but other than maybe a SIG P220, I cant think of them right now.

More companies carry more loads for the Super now than when this thread began in 2006.
Click to expand...
Is that because its use has become more prevalent in the games arenas?

The .40 S&W (introduced in 1990) was supposed to threaten the 9mm or the .45acp a decade ago. But neither of those rounds is knocked out.
Click to expand...
No, they arent knocked out, but they have been knocked down a good bit. From the standpoint of law enforcement, I think it has pretty much knocked both out. I'd be willing to bet that its the #1 round in that respect. There too, the 357SIG is has gained more acceptance, and may well be sitting at #2 before to long the way things are going.

How does the .357 SIG outclass the 10mm?
Click to expand...
It doesnt as far as power goes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Panzerschwein
  • Locked
.38 Super vs 9mm +P or +P+
Replies
21
Views
8K
justin22885
J
R
  • Locked
RIA 38 Super Question
Replies
16
Views
1K
batjka
B
J
  • Locked
.38 super or 10mm for defense?
2 3 4
Replies
83
Views
13K
Sam1911
S
T
  • Locked
.38 super round for defense
Replies
16
Views
2K
BluesBear
B
R
  • Locked
.38 Super hollow points??
Replies
5
Views
672
RepublicanMan
R
Back
Top