38 super for self defense?

[tipoc]

As long as your a fan of the 1911, I suppose your OK. I know there are a few others floating around, but other than maybe a SIG P220, I cant think of them right now.

Some were listed earlier in this thread. EAA (Tanfoglio) has also been producing guns in .38 Super and 10mm for well over a decade now. S&W offers the Super and basically all manufacturers of 1911s offer it. Keep in mind that the resurgence of the 1911 in the late 1990s brought into being a larger international market for the 1911 and with it the Super.

Is that because its use has become more prevalent in the games arenas?

No. I mentioned this earlier. The 38 Super still has an important place in IPSC and IDPA competition but it no longer dominates there as it did in the late 1980s to the late 1990s or so. One reason for that was the appearance of other guns and calibers other than the 1911 in 45 and 38 Super which could make major. The polymer framed guns and the 40 S&W made inroads on the Supers dominance. So the Super is less dominant in competition than it was but more commercial loads are available particularly from Cor-Bon and Double Tap. Armscorp and Aguila also introduced new loads for the Super.

No, they arent knocked out, but they have been knocked down a good bit. From the standpoint of law enforcement, I think it has pretty much knocked both out.

Well here you need to study some on the history of what rounds have been used in law enforcement since the transition to semis in the 1980s when the 9mm was the go to round. You are off base a bit here as well. But more on that later.

tipoc

 

[tipoc]

No, they arent knocked out, but they have been knocked down a good bit. From the standpoint of law enforcement, I think it has pretty much knocked both out. I'd be willing to bet that its the #1 round in that respect. There too, the 357SIG is has gained more acceptance, and may well be sitting at #2 before to long the way things are going.

In terms of sales of handgun ammunition in the U.S. the .38 Super has been in the class of ammo with the 10mm, 41 Magnum and 44 Spl. for decades. In that class it leads the pack.(This is a class that has not benefited as much as the 9mm, 40 and 45 in developments in bullet types and varieties of ammo. Benefitted some but not enough IMHO) But it has not been in the top tier in terms of sales ever I don't think. Other than the .22, 32 and 380 the top sellers have been the 9mm and the 45 in semis and for the last decade or so the 40S&W.

In the U.S. the 45acp never dominated in law enforcement (When loes left wheelguns for semis the 9mm benefitted most). It's likely more widely used nowdays than ever among LEOS. But not as widely as the 9mm (which for awhile did dominate law enforcement) and now the 40S&W.

The .357 Sig is now 16 years old. For a bit it languished, sales were slow, but about 4-5 years ago an aggressive push began by Glock and Sig to market it to law enforcement. Part of the push has been the offer of discounts. Any round that is adopted in law enforcement finds a market as a commercial round. (Some shooters reacted to the hype around the Sig and developed a dislike it for based on rejecting that hype.) The Sig round has been adopted by a couple of dozen depts. and works well. As well as the 40S&W but no better. It's too early to tell in my opinion how successful it will be in finding a permanent place in law enforcement which is what is aiming at.

None of this threatens the Super. Shooters drawn to the .357 Sig likely would not look at the Super and may never have heard of it. Shooters of the Super, if they want more power than the Super offers go to the 10mm or the 9x25 and are not so interested in the Sig round. As noted shooters of the Super are quite often 1911 guys and gals, but not always.

The Super is a classy round. Developed to penetrate the all steel bodies of truck and cars of the 1930s it did that well and still does. It was chambered in the Thompson sub machine gun. It was used by the FBI against Dillenger and by Dillenger against them. The OSS in Europe preferred it over the .45acp during the second world war. It is used widely in Mexico, Latin America, the Phillipines, Thailand and other parts of Asia and the Pacific. Used by the Border Patrol and respected for it's penetration through barriers and stopping abilities. Used to hunt varmints and deer sized game. It's a very well balanced round and useful over a surprising range of bullet weights and types for a semi round.

It's stuck around 80 years and it ain't in a rush to go away.

tipoc

 

[barnetmill]

A word of caution regarding high pressure loads in the .38 super. The ipsc guns that use the high pressure loads utilize a barrel extension to serve as the feed ramp. Typical 1911's remove a portion of the chamber as a feeding surface resulting in a chamber that does not offer complete support of the cartridge case. This means that a high pressure load can blowout the case head.

 

[AK103K]

tipoc,

My point about not being knocked out, but knocked down, was aimed at the 9mm and .45's, and due to the .40S&W and its use in the law enforcement communities these days. I believe the .40S&W is now pretty much the predominant choice in that respect. The 357SIG has been steadily moving into that market too.

None of those above have anything to do with the .38 Super, or 10mm for that matter. They are both pretty much just niche rounds in the civilian markets compared to the others.

I'm not saying they dont have a place in the scheme of things, and if you like them and have use for them, thats great, I doubt you'd be ill served by them.

 

[jryer]

38 Super Autos Available

Old thread I know, but great discussion. Now days plenty of choices to choose from:

Baer, Colt, Kimber, Rock Island Armory, Springfield, Taurus, and Wilson Combat all make the 38 Super Auto pistol. Great round and great pistols to go with it. A buddy of mine was saying 38 Super is a terrible self-defense round because the 380ACP and the latest fad of the tiny concealed autos. I simply told him it all depends what you're defending against. The micro frames are sorely lacking accuracy, so I'd rather have a slightly larger frame with better accuracy and over penetration than the other way around. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Why not....

 

[Fiv3r]

I'd actually love a gun in .38 Super just because of the historic significance. I had heard of the round but had never seen it in person before. While cleaning out the Youth Center in our church of all places, my wife found an old unfired jhp .38 Super round under one of the couches. Why someone in the youth center was packing around a niche caliber round, I have no idea. But my wife brought it home to me. She didn't know if I had any gun that would fire it Sadly I do not

Neat little round for sure

As for the market following what the cops carry, I can certainly see that. However, I also see some departments going on odd angles. I asked my buddy who has recently become a Deputy what the current duty pistol is. I believe they used to carry .40S&W. He told me they now use .45 GAP. Ugh. I like what the GAP tries to do, but what a pricey round for the Sheriff's Department. Oh well. As long as it serves my friend well and gets him home to his wife and kids every night, I'm cool with it.