CapnMac
Member
Nothing wrong with a Dagger.
It's G19 sized, which is mid-range, really.
It there's anything wrong with a Dagger, it's the the price point is like to make them multiply in one's safe
.38 super or 380?
- Thread starter Csinn
- Start date
It's G19 sized, which is mid-range, really.
It there's anything wrong with a Dagger, it's the the price point is like to make them multiply in one's safe
That actually in and available or the typical tease? Looks like none of that is actually available at Bud's. Gotta click that "in stock" button.
OTOH, getting CZ clones in .38Super aren't impossible, though. Just expensive.
No knowledgeable person is giving a 38Super to a kid as a first time shooter.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
Since you have it already that seems like the kids next step
Of course if you want to buy something "for the kids" (you need to tell the wife they need one of their own LOL)a 9mm 1911 would be sweet.
(you might like it to)
Something like this might be nice
https://www.armscor.com/firearms-list/rock-standard-fs-9mm-10rd
I have two of these (a spare just in case, CA stupid approved handgun list might take it off so I got a spare while I could) that I really like.
Of course this is nicer than the RIA but more $
https://www.springfield-armory.com/...ed-target-9mm-handgun-stainless-ca-compliant/
#1 is on about 80k rounds ,#2 only has about a 1000 thru it.
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.38 Super rocks, but not necessarily for new/young shooters, where the .380 in a medium plus sized pistol would be better.
@hso mentions 9MM training rounds which are lighter. I haven't seen these (Most likely since I reload), but I'm sure he's right, and in a full sized pistol recoil should be reasonable.
I still like revolvers in .32 Mag or .38 Spl with light loads to start new shooters, regardless of age, stepping up in power if they like it is easy.
@hso mentions 9MM training rounds which are lighter. I haven't seen these (Most likely since I reload), but I'm sure he's right, and in a full sized pistol recoil should be reasonable.
I still like revolvers in .32 Mag or .38 Spl with light loads to start new shooters, regardless of age, stepping up in power if they like it is easy.
OLDE RETIRED COASTIE
Member
I have a COLT 38 super I purchased used back in 1976 when I was stationed in Alaska. Is a good shooter , but ammo is expensive, and hard to find. Is why I reload. I did have an ED BROWN drop in barrel and bushing
and mags and worked great. I also had to change recoil spring as 9 mm was softer than the 38 super spring. In Feb I got a new TISAS 9mm as a gift and sold the 9 mm barrel and bushing.
Good thing about those calibers as a reloader, those two use .355 bullets. The 38 super can be loaded hotter, with higher pressures. The old Thompson sub machine gun was built in 38 super in the 1920s cause could shoot through the engine block of the cars of the gangsters. But with the advent of the 357 mag, that kind of went away,
and mags and worked great. I also had to change recoil spring as 9 mm was softer than the 38 super spring. In Feb I got a new TISAS 9mm as a gift and sold the 9 mm barrel and bushing.
Good thing about those calibers as a reloader, those two use .355 bullets. The 38 super can be loaded hotter, with higher pressures. The old Thompson sub machine gun was built in 38 super in the 1920s cause could shoot through the engine block of the cars of the gangsters. But with the advent of the 357 mag, that kind of went away,
Sgt_Mike1
Member
.38 super or .380acp ....... Hmmmm the first question is do you reload ??? if so, easy answer is the .38 super in a 1911 format. why? You can down load the .38 super closer to the the .380 easier than you can hot rod the .380 to a .38 Super. 1911 is a relatively heavy gun and loaded down to closer to .380 it doesn't kick. Most .380 are in a small frame and are mostly snappy because of the lack of weight.
But then again when I taught my son to shoot a rifle I broke him in on full house 30-06, so now he judges recoil by the 30-06 not a .22LR . Just my thoughts your mileage may vary.
But then again when I taught my son to shoot a rifle I broke him in on full house 30-06, so now he judges recoil by the 30-06 not a .22LR . Just my thoughts your mileage may vary.
Our local bimart has a rock island 200 .38special for $224 that is very tempting, and my wife doesn’t mind the price either. They any good?The only super I’ve been able to find local is some specialty colt for $2450
. I buy all my ammo as well. I don’t know how hard it is to find low power .38 special. I can find a lot of non +p. I really appreciate the help.
. I buy all my ammo as well. I don’t know how hard it is to find low power .38 special. I can find a lot of non +p. I really appreciate the help.
100gr 9mm low recoil https://www.ssusa.org/content/revie...-grain-steel-challenge-low-recoil-ammunition/
fxvr5
Member
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For low recoil 38 Special ammo you have several options.
148 grain wadcutter. These are target loads.
38 Long Colt
38 Short Colt
Matt's bullets low recoil 38 Special; https://www.mattsbullets.com/38-special-minimized-recoil-105-grain-lswc.html
148 grain wadcutter. These are target loads.
38 Long Colt
38 Short Colt
Matt's bullets low recoil 38 Special; https://www.mattsbullets.com/38-special-minimized-recoil-105-grain-lswc.html
tommy.duncan
Member
I only have 1 38 super and it is amazingly accurate!!
If this round was ever marketed as a 9mm magnum it would have sold twice as many pistols!!
Great round!! Very accurate!!
Dudedog
Contributing Member
Side note to the discussion,
at my USPSA match today we had a new shooter,
10 years old, his first match, shooting a CZ in 9mm.
He behaved very well and followed all range commands correctly.
He didn't seem to have any issue shooting a 9mm, but even though it was his first match I'm sure it wasn't his first time shooting the gun.
I just hope he didn't beat dad or he's going to be in trouble.
at my USPSA match today we had a new shooter,
10 years old, his first match, shooting a CZ in 9mm.
He behaved very well and followed all range commands correctly.
He didn't seem to have any issue shooting a 9mm, but even though it was his first match I'm sure it wasn't his first time shooting the gun.
I just hope he didn't beat dad or he's going to be in trouble.
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Not familiar with them, but a .38 Spl is never a wrong decision.
macadore
Member
The 38 Super is similar to a 357 Magnum. The recoil an muzzle blast can be vicious. Not the best choice for beginning shooters.
Can you get any loads that aren’t so blasty? My cousin got his because our gun fanatic friend told him it was a tamed .357, he didn’t want a gun quite as blasty as .357 and claims his is nice to shoot
Most commercial 38 Super loads are downloaded to 9x19 levels since they will also chamber in some of the old Spanish 9mm Lago pistols which won't hold up to a full power 38 Super load. Otherwise you can play with reloading powder puff loads with different powders to reduce muzzle flash.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
Not a lot of selection in .38 Super loads.
Remember .38 Super ammo is about $30 a box while 9mm is about $15. (prices are a guess, haven't bought any factory handgun ammo for a while)
Most kids that like to shoot like to shoot a lot!
If you don't reload, now might be a time to start! (even though primers are pricey at the moment)
The 9mm you have with light loads of 100gr bullets should be just the ticket for the kids, since you already own a 9mm.
So the reloading equipment would be "for the children"
(ok Enabling done).
As mentioned earlier .38 Special would be a good choice to,
but the .38 / 9mm is pretty much a revolver vs semi auto choice.
That is one of the joys of reloading, you can make the ammo to fit your needs.
You could download 9mm with 100gr bullets to be pretty close to 380 power levels in a heaver gun.
Remember .38 Super ammo is about $30 a box while 9mm is about $15. (prices are a guess, haven't bought any factory handgun ammo for a while)
Most kids that like to shoot like to shoot a lot!
If you don't reload, now might be a time to start! (even though primers are pricey at the moment)
The 9mm you have with light loads of 100gr bullets should be just the ticket for the kids, since you already own a 9mm.
So the reloading equipment would be "for the children"
(ok Enabling done).
As mentioned earlier .38 Special would be a good choice to,
but the .38 / 9mm is pretty much a revolver vs semi auto choice.
That is one of the joys of reloading, you can make the ammo to fit your needs.
You could download 9mm with 100gr bullets to be pretty close to 380 power levels in a heaver gun.
I might have to just try that since I reload 100 Grain bullets in my 380 loads anyway. I don't have tow of the same pistols chambered in 380 and 9mm but I do have an older Llama IIIA in 380 (baby 1911) along with a Star Firestar in 9mm or in my Sig P938. The FIrestars are in between the SigP938/Kimber Micro and a compact 1911 as far as size and weight goes.
I suspect that a light 9mm load with 100 grain bullets will still have more kick that 380 loaded with 100 grain bullets in similar size/weight pistols since the 9mm still uses more powder.
I'd love to see you hot rod a .380 to a 38 Super. Please take pictures! lol...
just funnin' ya!
fxvr5
Member
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- May 26, 2017
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Federal 115 grain JHP. Mild load. Loaded to 9mm ballistics.
SterlingBullet
Member
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- Jun 1, 2015
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- 305
If it is a young shooter starting out, you want light recoil and lightweight but not too light. Some younger shooters can really struggle holding up a 24 to 32-oz revolver or semi-automatic. Micro 22LRs and micro 380s are too light with some having harsh recoil even adults don’t like. 38 Super has far too much recoil for young shooters.
The standard firearms for learning to shoot in order are (if I could be bold enough claim such a thing):
32 S&W Long revolvers are good, but they are hard to acquire and obtain the needed ammo.
The standard firearms for learning to shoot in order are (if I could be bold enough claim such a thing):
- 22LR lightweight single action revolvers - such as a Heritage, Ruger Single-Six/Bearcat/Wrangler
- 22LR lightweight double action revolvers - Taurus, Smith, Charter Arms, Diamondback Sidekick, but sometimes the trigger pull is too heavy.
- 22LR semi-automatics - anything over 16-ozs - Smith&Wesson M&P, Ruger SR22, Walther P22, Browning 1911, Glock 44, Taurus TX22, Kel-Tec P17
- 380 semi-automatics - anything over 16oz - Smith&Wesson EZ (assuming their hands are big enough for the grip and grip safety), metal-frame Bersas, Berettas, Colts (not Pocket Lites), Browning 1911
32 S&W Long revolvers are good, but they are hard to acquire and obtain the needed ammo.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
A little but not as much as you might think.
Slow and fast with 90/95/100s in 9mm can both be fun!
Most of the listed data for 9mm with 100s is pushing them fast to get nice light loads you have to go below the start charge of most data.
This load ran fine in my 1911 with a stock spring, but I couldn't go any lighter and get good function.
I kept backing down until I lost function then added .1gr more than what would function for wiggle room.
5" 9mm 1911, S+B SP, mixed range brass, charges as thrown after setting measure.
(really soft shooting in a all metal 1911)
String: 7
Date: 7/1/2017
Time: 9:24:22 AM
Grains: 100
Hi Vel: 1031
Low Vel: 1005
Ave Vel: 1017.6
Ext Spread: 26
Std Dev: 11.2
4.2HP38 Xtreme 100 1.043 ( Function fine Sig P226 and 1911 )
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1016 101.6 229.187
1031 103.1 234.96
1027 102.7 234.176
1009 100.9 226.039
1005 100.5 224.251
some Hodgdon data for .380 with 100s
100 GR. HDY FMJ Hodgdon CFE Pistol .355" .980" 3.3 794 12,400 PSI 4 955 19,800 PSI
100 GR. HDY FMJ Winchester AutoComp .355" .980" 3.8 822 11,000 CUP 4.2 934 14,400 CUP
100 GR. HDY FMJ Hodgdon Universal .355" .980" 3 721 11,400 CUP 3.4 889 16,100 CUP
100 GR. HDY FMJ Winchester 231 .355" .980" 2.9 819 13,800 CUP 3.1 843 15,400 CUP
100 GR. HDY FMJ Hodgdon HP-38 .355" .980" 2.9 819 13,800 CUP 3.1 843 15,400 CUP
100 GR. HDY FMJ Hodgdon Titegroup .355" .980" 2.6 793 11,400 CUP 3 912 14,700 CUP
100 GR. HDY FMJ Winchester 572 .355" .980" 3.4 816 15,300 PSI 4.1 965 19,800 PSI
100 GR. HDY FMJ Winchester 244 .355" .980" 3 851 16,600 PSI 3.5 994 19,500 PSI
so if we call .380 with a 100gr bullet 900fps they are a little hotter than .380 but not by much.
If you put in a lighter recoil spring you could probably back down all the way to .380 levels.
Sgt_Mike1
Member
I'd love to see you hot rod a .380 to a 38 Super. Please take pictures! lol...
LMAO and ya wouldn't see me doing it. but my point was one could load the 38 super or even the 9mm family to a acceptable level to introduce new / younger shooter to the sport. Most will go the .22LR route which is a great option, as it evident in this thread.
Felt recoil and actual recoil are relative to the host designs and ergonomics.
This is definitely true. I can use the Glock G23 as a prime example when using the OEM frame and an aftermarket frame. 40 S&W is known to be snappy from a compact pistol to begin with.
I have a Gen 3 G23 and a couple of years ago I built a Strike Industries Strike 80 frame and decided to see what differences there was between it and the OEM frame. The Strike 80 frame is more rounded and fits in my hands better than the Glock frame. And with those differences, the Strike 80 frame is more pleasant to shoot with the OEM G23 slide when compared to the OEM G23 frame and slide.
Howland937
Member
Yes, you can. As was mentioned, very few manufacturers load their 38 Super ammo anywhere near it's full potential. Only a couple of the boutique ones come to mind. It's by far my favorite centerfire pistol cartridge but PLEASE stop entertaining the idea of having your kids move up from .22 to 38 Super. Even the lighter recoiling factory ammo in a steel frame 1911 is noticeably more harsh than factory 9mm in the same gun.
And for the love of John Moses Browning and all things holy, wear ear protection! ALL THE TIME! No Excuses!!!
