As my name implies I am relatively new to pistols. I did a little reading over the weekend came across an interesting ariticle about the .38 Super. It looks like a neat load and I am wondering why is in not that popular. Anyone care to enlighten me?
.38 Super
- Thread starter JaxNovice
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Probably because it was never widely accepted by many/any military or police organizations.
But it's pretty popular amongst IPSC shooters, as it easily makes major power factor. Apparently it was fairly popular in Mexico too (but more so for political reasons).
Really, it's kind of become a sporting round.
I guess most people just go for the 9mm or the .45, as there doesn't seem to be a gun specifically designed for the 38 super. We have 9s that were beefed up to take the .38super (CZ) or .45s that were just given a different barrel and mag (1911). I guess most just don't see the value in the compromise.
Owning a Tanfoglio in .38 super, I love the cartridge (and the Tanfoglio). It perfectly suits my needs.
Cheers,
Arch
But it's pretty popular amongst IPSC shooters, as it easily makes major power factor. Apparently it was fairly popular in Mexico too (but more so for political reasons).
Really, it's kind of become a sporting round.
I guess most people just go for the 9mm or the .45, as there doesn't seem to be a gun specifically designed for the 38 super. We have 9s that were beefed up to take the .38super (CZ) or .45s that were just given a different barrel and mag (1911). I guess most just don't see the value in the compromise.
Owning a Tanfoglio in .38 super, I love the cartridge (and the Tanfoglio). It perfectly suits my needs.
Cheers,
Arch
Cosmoline
Member
I believe it's really a .38 ACP magnum. Not to be confused with a 9x23 Win. or a 9 Largo or any of a dozen other variations on the theme.
I believe the 1911 was originally designed to take a cartridge like the .38 super, but the US military said they wanted a .45 caliber, so JMB invented the .45 ACP for the 1911. Not a 1911 expert, just recall reading that somewhere.
-David
-David
sara bellum
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Taurus makes/made a .38 super
It appears that there is a Taurus model chambered in the .38 super as an alternative to the 1911, http://www.gunrush.com/firearm/gun/Taurus-1038049-Pistols.htm . Please let us know what you think about this type of firearm in .38 super. Good luck.
It appears that there is a Taurus model chambered in the .38 super as an alternative to the 1911, http://www.gunrush.com/firearm/gun/Taurus-1038049-Pistols.htm . Please let us know what you think about this type of firearm in .38 super. Good luck.
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BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
The 38 Super caught on in the action pistol shooting competitions because of its low recoil, fast follow up shot capability, and economical concerns for those who reloaded for those competitions.
Its a fine cartridge, and would serve you well. Its not as popular as the .45 ACP, but you can still find defensive loadings for it.
Its a fine cartridge, and would serve you well. Its not as popular as the .45 ACP, but you can still find defensive loadings for it.
Cocked & Locked
Member
I like shiny .38 Super 1911's. The cartridge comes to full potential when handloaded...flat shooting and enuff punch on the muzzle end to take care of business.
The Super .38 (correct name) was the offspring of the .38 ACP - the original Colt Auto Pistol round, first sold around 1900. The Super .38 was introduced in 1929 in the Government Model as a magnumized version of the older .38 ACP. Same outward dimensions but much more potent and capable of spontaneous disassembly of the older Colt .38 Automatics.
The Super .38 was popularized by the federal agents who found they were involved in two types of shooting; negligent discharges and shooting in and around automobiles. The .38 Super was used to penetrate auto bodies, which it did better than the .45 ACP. Soon, S&W came out with the .357 Magnum which they claimed would penetrate auto cylinder blocks.
The Super .38 never seemed to catch on with USA shooters much, who seemed to compare it to a 9mm Parabellum. Once shooting games became popular, Super .38 was revitalized as they hold more rounds than a similar sized .45 and are capable of making major power factor, which 9mm Luger is not. HTH
The Super .38 was popularized by the federal agents who found they were involved in two types of shooting; negligent discharges and shooting in and around automobiles. The .38 Super was used to penetrate auto bodies, which it did better than the .45 ACP. Soon, S&W came out with the .357 Magnum which they claimed would penetrate auto cylinder blocks.
The Super .38 never seemed to catch on with USA shooters much, who seemed to compare it to a 9mm Parabellum. Once shooting games became popular, Super .38 was revitalized as they hold more rounds than a similar sized .45 and are capable of making major power factor, which 9mm Luger is not. HTH
ccmdfd
Member
I love .38 Supers! I have 4 of them now, and will likely add more.
It recoils less than a .45, and has fast follow up shots. But it's not a wimp. People at the range always come by and see what I've got after I put a few rounds downrange. "I knew that was something big" is what they typically say. I just smile.
cc
It recoils less than a .45, and has fast follow up shots. But it's not a wimp. People at the range always come by and see what I've got after I put a few rounds downrange. "I knew that was something big" is what they typically say. I just smile.
cc
wally
Member
If only they had named it 9mm magnum 
Its pretty much a handloading or boutique ammo producer proposition only as the existence of old guns chambered for the much lower pressure .38ACP (circa 1903) makes most commercial ammo fail to reach the full potential of the round -- similar state of affairs with the 10mm for different reasons.
--wally.
Its pretty much a handloading or boutique ammo producer proposition only as the existence of old guns chambered for the much lower pressure .38ACP (circa 1903) makes most commercial ammo fail to reach the full potential of the round -- similar state of affairs with the 10mm for different reasons.
--wally.
hrgrisso
Member
Bootlegger and Gmen
IIRC the 38 Super caught on greatly as an Armor piercing round during the roaring 20's. Favored by notorious outlaws and the Gmen hot on their trail it was a fast and yet easy to shoot round.
Again IIRC I believe it was due to the use eighty years previously in the Armor piercing role that Herr Clinton and Helga Janet destroyed much of the DOJ's inventory of 38 Supers.
On a side note, I've also been fascinated by the cartridge and would love to get a nice pistol chambered for it. Of course I hope to find a Sig 220 chambered for it, but I sometimes I think I'll find a NIB 225 first...
IIRC the 38 Super caught on greatly as an Armor piercing round during the roaring 20's. Favored by notorious outlaws and the Gmen hot on their trail it was a fast and yet easy to shoot round.
Again IIRC I believe it was due to the use eighty years previously in the Armor piercing role that Herr Clinton and Helga Janet destroyed much of the DOJ's inventory of 38 Supers.
On a side note, I've also been fascinated by the cartridge and would love to get a nice pistol chambered for it. Of course I hope to find a Sig 220 chambered for it, but I sometimes I think I'll find a NIB 225 first...
daysleeprx
Member
Looking at Cocked & Locked pics....I suddenly have a craving for BBQ
Cocked & Locked
Member
BBQ
Well come on over to NC! BBQ guns galore and even some fresh meat from last Wednesday...if you don't mind BBQ'd wild boar.
Well come on over to NC! BBQ guns galore and even some fresh meat from last Wednesday...if you don't mind BBQ'd wild boar.
10-Ring
Member
I've had alot of fun shooting a 38 super racegun w/ really light loads...I think at this point in time, the problem is ammo expense and variety (there isn't much to choose from if you don't reload).
ccmdfd
Member
Yeah! And that's half the fun!
cc
HorseSoldier
Member
I think the big problem is that it's not a terribly efficient case design by modern standards. Handloaded it can do a little more than 9x19, but it is not set up to be loaded as hot as something like 9x23. So you get a little extra performance compared to a 9x19 handgun, at the expense of using a round with 45 ACP overall length and consequent reduction in magazine capacity (at least as far as most shooters of average or below average hand sizes go).
Basically, as a carry/self-defense gun, while it will certainly get the job done, it's not the best way to skin a cat. For competitive shooting, it seems to have found a new lease on life.
Basically, as a carry/self-defense gun, while it will certainly get the job done, it's not the best way to skin a cat. For competitive shooting, it seems to have found a new lease on life.
Horsesoldier hit the big point. It takes a 45 ACP gun to chamber it due to the length. When you can get a 9x19 to carry a double stack easily, a 45 ACP sized handle begins to approach 2X4 dimensions. With competition, it doesn't matter, so that's why it's popular again. The Mexicans liked it because they could not have military ammunition chambered weapons, i.e. 45 ACP.
gandog56
Member
I like a 357 Sig better.
Texas Colt
Member
DogBonz is correct. Originally, the 38 Super was designed to headspace on the semi-rim of the case instead of on the case mouth like most semi-autos. The 38 Super is a semi-rimmed cartridge. Headspacing on the rim caused accuracy problems. In later years (I don't remember when) Colt changed their barrels to headspace on the case mouth and accuracy improved greatly.
Carl N. Brown
Member
This is one round people hear about more than shoot.
I have heard the original barrels headspaced on the semi-rim
of the cartridge and were not as accurate as they should have
been, whereas the more recent versions headspace on the
mouth of the case (as does the .45ACP) and are more consistent
and thus more accurate.
Eventually I may get one and find out for myself.
I have heard the original barrels headspaced on the semi-rim
of the cartridge and were not as accurate as they should have
been, whereas the more recent versions headspace on the
mouth of the case (as does the .45ACP) and are more consistent
and thus more accurate.
Eventually I may get one and find out for myself.
I WANT ONE!!!
Oh, sorry... was that my outside voice?
I really have a thing for medium bore autos; I'd love a set of Commander-length .38 Supers, one in stainless and one in deep blue with the small parts (thumb safety, hammer, recoil spring plug, slide stop and front sight) swapped for contrast. Buffalo horn or ebony grips on the stainless gun and ivory (I wish!) or stag on the blue.
He also began development of the HiPower based on a 9.8mm round, rather than the Parabellum.
If I may quote from Stephen A. Camp's great article "How Does .38 Super Compare to 9mm?" (it would probably come up soon, anyway):
Oh, sorry... was that my outside voice?
I really have a thing for medium bore autos; I'd love a set of Commander-length .38 Supers, one in stainless and one in deep blue with the small parts (thumb safety, hammer, recoil spring plug, slide stop and front sight) swapped for contrast. Buffalo horn or ebony grips on the stainless gun and ivory (I wish!) or stag on the blue.
.41 ACP... Saint Browning was developing it with Colt before the Thompson-LaGarde tests. Makes my trigger finger itch just thinking about it.
He also began development of the HiPower based on a 9.8mm round, rather than the Parabellum.
If I may quote from Stephen A. Camp's great article "How Does .38 Super Compare to 9mm?" (it would probably come up soon, anyway):
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