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38 SW break tops for SD ?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Bagheera, Feb 27, 2018.

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  1. Bagheera

    Bagheera member

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    Reasonable is key in this situation
     
  2. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    I believe Iver Johnsons always had the transfer bar, but the earlier ones were not built for Smokeless powder. Only the later ones with the features I described were made specifically for Smokeless powder.

    Here is a patent drawing from 1896 that shows the transfer bar and the black powder type cylinder notches.

    iverjohnsontransferbarpatent_zpsc295985f.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2018
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  3. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    The frames of the Perfected were the same as the frames of the 3rd Model Single Shots, sometimes known as the Perfected Target Pistol. The 3rd Model Single shot was made from 1909 until 1923. Just a few years longer than the Perfected Models. As with the Perfected, the third model single shot could be fired either single action or double action, but I don't know why a serious target shooter would want to fire a single shot double action.

    SIngle%20Shot%203rd%20Model%20and%20Perfected_zps2fwcll9d.jpg




    The lockwork of the Perfected model was identical to the 3rd Model Single Shot.

    hammer%20down_zps6opzolbd.jpg




    Except there was no hand on the single shot. But it was the same trigger, you can even see where the hand would have fit into the trigger.

    Single%20Shot%201st%20Model%20Internal_zpsmxr7ezog.jpg




    The 32 Hand Ejector 1st Model had quite a different lockwork.

    degreased_zps2ewmktdu.jpg




    The 32 HE was the first S&W made with a side swinging cylinder in 1896. But S&W had not quite perfected the Hand Ejector mechanism yet. The 32 HE 1st Model hearkened back to the Tip Ups with the bolt in the top strap, actuated by a rounded wedge on the top of the hammer.

    rearsightandfiringpin_zpsaad5d7b8.jpg

    bolt_zps54afd4c2.jpg




    The 32 HE 1st Model worked just like the old Tip Ups. The rounded rear of the wedge raised the bolt as the hammer was cocked. When the hammer fell, the sharp front edge of the wedge split the split spring under the bolt, keeping the bolt engaged as the hammer fell.

    32HEandTipUpHammers_zpsfe73f0a8.jpg




    As to why the Perfected Model was developed, the standard story is that a bad guy could reach forward and lift the latch of a Top Break, causing the gun to open and rendering it temporarily useless. The story is that enough shooters complained about this that the Perfected was developed, so no bad guy could open the gun. Of course it would take somebody pretty gutsy to try that lift the latch trick. I have read that somewhere in the S&W archives there is actually a letter to Daniel Wesson complaining about this 'feature' of the Top Breaks. This explanation may make sense since Daniel Wesson did not die until 1906.

    Personally, I always thought the Perfected Model was really dumb. Then I found one. Then I found another......................

    They're kind of like candy. Once you start you can't stop.
     
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  4. Zebraranger

    Zebraranger Member

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    My Dad passed this S&W 3rd model Double Action on to me about 10 years ago before he passed away. He carried it as his ccw for a short period sometime during the 1960's. Prior to that his older brother owned it and received it from their Dad, so its been in the family for many decades. It just sits in my safe and I take it out every once in a while just to admire the beautiful craftsmanship of a 138 year old revolver.
    c42aecec-c5a2-46cb-a205-ba584c61a573_zps88f84634.jpg
     
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  5. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    By the time the Perfected Model came out, they were up to the .32 Hand Ejector Model of 1903, Third Change. Similarity of the HE, Perfected, and Third Model Single Shot are obvious and logical.
    The 1896 design was long gone, its oddities were gone from the 1899 M&P even though the .32 hung on until 1903.
     
  6. Kaeto

    Kaeto Member

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    I'd like to get a S&W Hammerless 'Lemon Squeezer'.
     
  7. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    There's lots of them out there.

    32%20safety%20hammerless%20with%20box_zpsden38qga.jpg




    I looked for quite a while until I found a Bicycle Revolver.

    Bicycle%20Revolver%2001_zpsqw4vquzz.jpg
     
  8. Bagheera

    Bagheera member

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    Very interesting Johnson ; )
    This thread is starting to look like something people will still read in the future about Ivers and that round in 38..
    Yeah well I'm raw,
    We all passionate here,no biggie my friend..but hey, u were right about one thing.
    It is a BP model.very good condition n the barrel too so I think it's reasonably pushable for a decent SD round..
    Around 800/850 fps..

    Interesting schemes of the clockwork.. thanks
     
  9. Bagheera

    Bagheera member

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    Talkin bout loads,
    With heavy bullet (158gr),
    Would I have to take it in consideration
    About the powder load and overpressure?
     
  10. Kaeto

    Kaeto Member

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    The problem is being able to afford to buy one. Sellers on Gunbroker seem to think that theirs are made of solid Platinum.
     
  11. Bagheera

    Bagheera member

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    U shouldn't complain if you live in the US.
    A 32 IN EUROPE Will start at around 600/700€.
    There u ll find a shootable one for 250/300 I guess..
     
  12. Bagheera

    Bagheera member

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    PS Kaeto,did you get my message in mp?
     
  13. Kaeto

    Kaeto Member

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    They are starting at $200 on gunbroker and one idjit thinks he'll get $2,000 out of his.
     
  14. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I bet. SCSW says those are worth twice as much as longer barrels. And the factory pearls don't hurt, either. And good blue less common than nickel.
     
  15. Bagheera

    Bagheera member

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    A firework of Beautiful pictures,
    Keep them comin guys..
     
  16. Bagheera

    Bagheera member

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    Simple, elegant ,discreet and whatever they say deadly.. SN155320.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  17. Cocked & Locked
    • Contributing Member

    Cocked & Locked Member

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    I've carried this one at times...but only with factory loaded ammo.

    381961110.jpg
     
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  18. JayZee

    JayZee Member

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    No .327 Fed Mag Speed strips or moonclips for use in a Top break . :)
     
  19. Jim K

    Jim K Member.

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    Odd!

    When the .38 S&W is used in an S&W breaktop, a lot of folks call it weak, and near useless,only good for frightening small rabbits.

    But when the nearly identical .380 MkII is used in a Webley or Enfield breaktop, it is hailed as an empire builder, a powerful round, guaranteed killer of Nazis and defender of English virtue and values, etc.

    Jim
     
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