.380 ACP in a 9mm pistol: UPDATE

[230RN]

Off hand, I can't think of any. "Design" in general, maybe, like the Llama .380 that copies the M1911, but the Spanish gun is a lot smaller and lighter. The same would be true of the .380 "Lugers"; small guns, lighter and smaller breechblocks. Same general design, but not at all the same gun.

I have one of those Llama .380s. Stripped down, except for the extractor and the ventilated rib, all, repeat "all," of the internals are almost exact "5/8" scaled 1911 parts. *

However, because of their size (and corresponding lack of strength), I doubt if the Llama would hold up against the firing stresses and recoil impacts of the 9X19 cartridge. And I doubt the barrel would hold up... again because of its correspondingly small dimensions.

I would especially be concerned about the teeny tiny little barrel link, but most modern 9s use a ramp-camming action with the locking accomplished differently from either the 1911 or the M9. The 1911 uses grooves and slots in the barrel which correspond to grooves and slots in the slide. The M9 has some kind of goomizigah Italian locking system using a block of parmesan cheese to accomplish the locking.

Terry, 230RN

* See below for 1911 parts versus Llama .380 Mod I or II for comparison. This is a quick and dirty pic I shot for a friend. I take better pictures than that nowadays.

 

[JRH6856]

I have one of those Llama .380s. Stripped down, except for the extractor and the ventilated rib, all, repeat "all," of the internals are almost exact "5/8" scaled 1911 parts.

If so, you have one of the older models with a barrel link and slide lugs. Later models had an unlinked barrel and were straight blowback and definitely would not handle 9mm.

But even at the reduced scale, some 1911 parts are somewhat interchangeable. I fitted a Mueschke ambi safety to mine with very little alteration.

 

[Rex B]

"
* See link below for 1911 parts versus Llama .380 Mod I or II for comparison. This is a quick and dirty pic I shot for a friend. I take better pictures than that nowadays.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachmen...1&d=1389899923"

Terry, this link doesn't work for me, and I couldn't find a way to search for the thread.
I have several of those old Llamas, always like to see others.

 

[Thermactor]

Bad idea all around and I don't care what anyone says. A 9mm is a 9mm and a .380 is a .380. Put the cartridge in the gun it was designed for.

That's a given, but I get a genuine kick out of these thought experiments.
If anything, you'll learn what might work in a real emergency situation when nothing else is around.
Did ya see the video on YouTube where the guy fired a 223 cartridge out of a Glock handgun?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkJuu7rwNEc

 

[230RN]

RexB, I replaced the broken link with an actual image. See above.

JRH6856 noted

If so, you have one of the older models with a barrel link and slide lugs. Later models had an unlinked barrel and were straight blowback and definitely would not handle 9mm.

Yeah, I spotted a blowback one at a Gun Show a decade ago and got all hot to trot for it, mostly on the theory that it would be more accurate. I noted the recoil spring was pretty stiff, hard for these old arthritic hands to reliably rack with the hammer down. Typical of blowback actions. Bought it anyway, noticed the slide had been modified from the locked-breech version to make it heavier*, notably in the cutout area by the dust cover, and of course without the locking slots, a slight amount of additional weight* was added. There were other places where weight was added, but I forget all of them.

Finally gave it away. It was nice to have two of them for a while, but I just couldn't conveniently rack the slide. Keep this in mind if you're going to buy one (any blowback) for a woman or other person without "man-hands." It also kicked a bit more. I have the same problem with PPKs.

Terry, 230RN

* Yeah, I know, technically it's "mass," but "heavier" sounded better than "massier." (Jeeze, even my spellchecker redlined "massier!" )

 

[230RN]

Anyone else having a problem seeing that image of the parts comparison between the 1911 and the Llama .380 in Post 26 above?

Rex B said all he could see is an icon.

Help?

Terry

 

[JRH6856]

Anyone else having a problem seeing that image of the parts comparison between the 1911 and the Llama .380 in Post 26 above?

Rex B said all he could see is an icon.

Help?

Terry

no image here, just an icon.

 

[230RN]

OK, try this:

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=19728.msg178361#msg178361

I posted it in the diagnostic section of the Hawaiian site. Don't want to diagnose the situation here any more.

If you're still interested . You may have to log in. No big deal.

Terry

 

[ku4hx]

I'm just speculating, but I believe the people who are wanting to shoot 380 ACP in a 9mm gun are of the same mind as those who believe setting off fireworks on your head is a good idea.

 

[Jim K]

Well, you can safely fire .380 ACP in a 9mm Luger pistol. The fireworks on the head, not so much.

Jim

 

[ku4hx]

Yes, with "can" being the operative word. You can survive a lightening strike, many people do, but I'd not recommend it to test light bulbs or any other reason for that matter.

 

[230RN]

Oh, I dunno. Without experimentation, where would we be? One would presume the experimenter uses a certain amount of enlightened caution, but that's not always the case.

When I had my machine shop and my own range, I did a lot of off the wall stuff.

Cautiously.

Not recommending you fire a mortar on top of your head, at least not before trying it out on a cantaloupe first.

Cautiously.

This one occasioned a few hand-wringings before the "zero" count. A few even thought it might atomically "ignite" all the nitrogen in the atmosphere....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfK9G7UDok

Say, we're coming up to that anniversary soon.

Both the man of science and the man of action live always at the edge of mystery, surrounded by it.

J. Robert Oppenheimer

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/j_robert_oppenheimer.html#yLt1lMp4UYAZbFIh.99

Sometimes the magic works... sometimes it doesn't.
--Grandfather, in "Little Big Man"

Terry

 

[Ibmikey]

We seem to always have those who for whatever reason wish to push sanity and common sense to the maximum, i look at those who have a need to interchange calibers in this group. Why the desire to shoot .40 S&W in a 10mm barrel or .380 in a 9 mm , .38 super in a 9mm Largo for example holds such attraction knowing the head space is wide open or pressures extreme is beyond me.

 

[Radagast]

gulogulo1970:
The Medusa revolver was an attempt at a multi-caliber gun. Rare as hen's teeth. There was one on ArmsList recently for $4850.
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Revolvers/Medusa_Model_47.htm

 

[Jim K]

"Not recommending you fire a mortar on top of your head..."

Yep, definitely not recommended.

Anyone remember the Japanese "knee mortar"? It had a curved base plate that was intended to dig into the ground, but some of our less bright GI's thought it was to be fired from the upper leg, and gave it the name "knee mortar". When they tried firing it that way, they found a quick, but painful, way to escape (temporarily) the rigors of combat.

Jim

 

[HisSoldier]

on the theory that it would be more accurate

I assume all of you know that a properly set up 1911 is far more accurate than any many can hold, even from a rest. As the barrel cams up there should be a minimum of three points of contact which should replicate shot after shot.

As for whether or not any Llama's have ever been tuned right from the factory is a matter of conjecture, from my experience accuracy and tight actions are not a high priority, but what would one expect buying one in 1970 when it costs about half of what a high end American gun cost at the time.

Having said all that, I treasure my Llama collection, every one except the .22 being, of course, locked breech.