Can you really justify a .380 over 9mm pocket pistol

[MCgunner]

Some can justify it, but not me. I have no problems carrying a P11, let alone a PF9, in MY pockets 24/7 and 9x19+P is TWICE the energy level and the P11 has nearly twice the firepower if you run the 12 round mags. It's also 3.5" at 25 yards accurate and the gun points and handles very naturally for me where the little .380 grips are more difficult and slower to point. No brainer for me. I have a compact .380, but rarely have occasion to carry it. I would if I needed the slightly smaller size, but I rarely ever do. I think one should have one in their collection for carry should they NEED the small size even if, like me, it's a rare necessity. Hell, I have two NAA mini revolvers if I MUST compromise that much for concealment.

Some folks are unwilling, it seems, to shop for pants with larger pockets. They'd rather carry an inferior caliber. That's up to them, I guess. It's their gun dollars and their butts that are on the line. I mostly carry a 9x19 subcompact, though and the PF9 is really not THAT much larger or even heavier than the P3AT.

 

[Losov]

To whom does it need to be justified?

 

[1911Tuner]

If we remember that guns of this class aren't good for protracted firefights across a parking lot, we start to understand their role and their utility a little better. Namely, up close and personal defense against an attack that will likely start hand to hand or against a knife that's already parted skin. While not qualifying as powerhouses or romp'em/stomp'em/knock'em in the weeds capable...when 3-4 rounds impacts in the groin area at contact distance...they'll give the attacker some serious second thoughts as to his actions. i.e Whether to continue the attack or run screaming, frantically in search of a fast ride to the hospital. He won't know, nor will he care what he's been shot with. All he wants is a surgeon who will get the bleeding stopped and assure him that his man parts are still in working order.

 

[MedWheeler]

I carry the PF-9, but not because I discount the 380 round. I carry it because it was the best compromise for me between gun size and round potency for the price. I carry IWB, so I'm not as restricted in concealment options, but I have on occasion carried the PF-9 in a pocket.
At the real end of the day, the gun that sends the bad guy running away, or to the ground, is the one that works. Countless times, it's been as small as a 22LR.
MCGunner, it's not about "choosing to carry an inferior caliber". After all, of you're carrying a 9x19 (and a subcompact at that), aren't you also doing just that?
I actually never understood the point of these threads, especially after so many runnings of the same thing.

 

[MICHAEL T]

My Mustang or KelTec carry real easy and the 380 is fine These pocket 9mm are still larger and more recoil . I will keep my 380's

 

[Guillermo]

My problem is not carrying a 380 but carrying a 380 in a firearm that can easily handle a more powerful round.

The Bersa 380 is a great example. Nice, natural pointing gun but why is it a 380 and a 9mm or a 40 caliber. Certainly there is enough meat to handle a better round?

 

[PRM]

I like what I like ~ justification enough!!!

 

[1911Tuner]

Nothin' wrong with the .380 as long as its limitations are understood. A Ruger LCP or Kel-Tec...or even a stack barrel .22 caliber derringer could have changed the outcome of events in many tragic situations. The story of "The Onion Field" is one such.

Thinking of them as efficient saps instead of combat arms may help.

 

[NinjaFeint]

I have had a PM9 that I carry daily for about six months. I prefer carrying it over a 380 but when I can only swing and LCP due to what I am wearing, I gladly pop that little SOB in my pocket.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Has anyone actually looked at the ballistics of a 3" barreled 9mm? The advantage isn't a great as you'd think, especially when you consider that some pocket nines aren't rated for +p ammo.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9mmluger.html

 

[NinjaFeint]

I am pretty sure my PM9 is fine with +p

 

[Hammerhead6814]

Anyone who complains about the size/weight of a PF-9 needs to go to the gym, lift some 2 1/2 pound weights, and [strike]grow a pair[/strike] do some regular home exercises. The difference between a Ruger LCP (unloaded) and a PF-9 (unloaded) is 3.3 OUNCES.

3.3 ounces is roughly 16 sheets of printer paper. I can't possibly imagine that bothering someone and there is no way you can convince me that 14.5 oz (fully loaded) is a problem. You'd have better luck trying to convince me to buy another Pontiac (please see my signature).

EDIT: Here is just what the PF-9 "Prints" on you. Half-way down the page is a front pocket and a little lower is the rear pocket. Unless your wearing spandex. Then I can see a problem.

 

[Haifisch]

For a defensive weapon, 9mm is the Minimum caliber I would consider.

 

[jon86]

I would be comfortable with "only" a 380. Most are too small for my hands though. I have shot the lcp and tcp and these tiny guns are too small for me to shoot comfortably under stress. I do much better with a 38 snubbie. I have decided that for me, a 38 is the smallest I will go, not because of round inadequacy, but because my hands are too large for anything smaller.

 

[oldfool]

OP suggested that the subject criteria was cost of ammo
If that was one and only criteria, I would not own anything but 22 rimfire

but it is not my one and only criteria, just one of many within a rather broad decision matrix, which leads to multiple good choices for various purposes
not just one and only one choice for any specific application

I am pretty sure I have spent more dollars on ammo for each and every firearm I own, than I did to originally buy the gun (including rimfires), whether individually or accumulative by caliber vs. number of guns owned in caliber

of all the elements within the decision making matrix, ammo cost ranks pretty low on my list, especially for hunting and/or defense weapons

(not that I didn't grimace, as always, at wallyworld today, picking up some 357 JHP, which has been a tad scarcer than I would like, for a bit too long, even though I never have run out of it, nor run out of 380acp FMJ either)

PS
not every question regarding 380acp requires a "my dawg's better than your dawg" argument.. OP did not mention moose, grizzly or any other such.. and you ought not let someone else pick out your dawg (or your wife or your gun) for you anyway, no matter what your personal decision matrix is

 

[Centaur 1]

Here in Florida it's shorts and tee shirts year round. It's harder to conceal a weapon but we don't have to shoot through winter coats either. I really wouldn't want to be hit with the Corbon DPX bullets that I carry in my LCP.

 

[IMTHDUKE]

If I can't justify it....I carry this one...



If I want to justify it, I carry this one...



If I want to semi justify it, I carry this one...

 

[oldfool]

If I can't justify it....I carry this one...



If I want to justify it, I carry this one...



If I want to semi justify it, I carry this one...

I admire both your attitude and your taste, sir !

 

[North Bender]

Hard to justify this thread. There's so much written on this subject that's available through the search engine, that to even start a thread with this title is only trying to raise hackles.

 

[ttheel]

About a year ago I went to the gunshop with the intention of most likely buying a Kahr PM9 for pocket carry. I was also going to look at an LCP but my mind was leaning strongly toward the Kahr. Then I handled both, slid both in my pocket and what can I say.....I changed my mind. The LCP is basically a carry everywhere you go under any circumstances pistol and while I wanted the PM9 to be that pistol, it just wasnt. At least for me. It is significantly thicker(which prints much more) and the extra 5-6 ounces is dramatically different in the pocket. Since my main reason for making the purchase was for pocket carry in virtually any circumstance the decision was easy. Even the fellow at the gunshop agreed that there truly was no comparison as far as ease of carry. Heck it doesnt hurt that it is dadgum accurate for such a small weapon either. Now this is no knock on the PM9 as it is a fine weapon, and I may own one at some point but it just didnt quite fit the bill for what I was looking for.

 

[oldfool]

Hard to justify this thread. There's so much written on this subject that's available through the search engine, that to even start a thread with this title is only trying to raise hackles.

fairly said, but then again...
if justification mattered, there would not be a single gun forum in all of cyberspace that had anything posted except for the 30 hit parade of top FAQ
and we would all have all the answers memorized (which we mostly already do), and we would be playing video fantasy games instead...

if truly serious about utter hopeless repetition, there is no shortage of video games at wallyworld
in choice of platform
cheap

 

[David E]

Nothin' wrong with the .380 as long as its limitations are understood

And therein lies the problem.......

 

[oldfool]

therein lies half the problem

 

[David E]

Nope, it's the entire problem.

Most folks that carry a .380 or smaller do not recognize, much less accept, the limitations of the caliber and/or platform.

 

[benEzra]

Some folks are unwilling, it seems, to shop for pants with larger pockets. They'd rather carry an inferior caliber. That's up to them, I guess. It's their gun dollars and their butts that are on the line. I mostly carry a 9x19 subcompact, though and the PF9 is really not THAT much larger or even heavier than the P3AT.

Anyone who complains about the size/weight of a PF-9 needs to go to the gym, lift some 2 1/2 pound weights, and grow a pair do some regular home exercises. The difference between a Ruger LCP (unloaded) and a PF-9 (unloaded) is 3.3 OUNCES.

3.3 ounces is roughly 16 sheets of printer paper. I can't possibly imagine that bothering someone and there is no way you can convince me that 14.5 oz (fully loaded) is a problem. You'd have better luck trying to convince me to buy another Pontiac (please see my signature).

EDIT: Here is just what the PF-9 "Prints" on you. Half-way down the page is a front pocket and a little lower is the rear pocket. Unless your wearing spandex. Then I can see a problem.

It's not about being too weak to carry the weight, or whining about it being too heavy, or about being too cheap to buy pants with bigger pockets. It's about the simple fact that there is a ratio of gun size vs. body size above which the gun will print, and for those of us who aren't large people, that threshold is somewhere in the neighborhood of a P3AT or smaller. The larger the size and the heavier the weight of the gun, the bigger you have to be to conceal it to the same level, all else being equal.

Here are the pics linked above:





Which is all well and good, as long as you are in an environment in which a little printing won't get you reprimanded, fired, or arrested, or you can just stand there in front of a camera at the perfect angle for best concealment without moving or (especially) sitting, or you can wear wrinkled khaki Dockers every day and keep them perfectly bloused out at all times. That gun in typical office attire, especially with thinner and/or smoother material, would print like crazy in a front pocket unless your are a really large person, and would be pretty darn obvious from behind if you bent over or even if you were walking. Not everyone has the luxury of printing even that much.

And the 9mm is significantly bigger, thicker, and heavier. From the same page linked above:





Smallest to largest: P3-AT .380 ACP, PF-9 9x19mm, P11 9x19mm. There is still a big difference between the concealability of the .380 and the 9mm.