380 neck tension

[Zendude]

i am having problems getting good neck tension with some of my used 380 brass. I tried to increase the tension until the copper plating on the bullet cracks. I don't use a crimp die, but I think maybe my brass has been reloaded too many times (maybe 4 or 5). None of the brass show signs of splitting but seems that the brass has lost its strength. The problem hasn't presented itself previously so nothing in my process has changed.

 

[Blue68f100]

Try to see if the bullet can be seated without using the expander die. If so your expander is too large and needs to be turned down, or don't use it. I would also check your bullet diameter too. Some time you will run across a batch that is under size.

 

[buck460XVR]

What dies are you using? I had the same problem with poor neck tension using Lee dies. When I contacted Lee about the problem, they admitted to having an issue with their dies and "certain" brands of brass in .380ACP. I had to go to their undersized sizing die to get proper neck tension. With the standard Lee sizing die, I could start and seat bullets without flaring the cases at all, With the "U" die, I now need to flare.

 

[lauderdale]

Mixed brass? Inside stepped?

 

[Mike44]

You stated that "I tried to increase the tension until the copper plating on the bullet cracks." Do you mean that you increased the taper crimp until the plating cracked? Increasing the taper crimp will not increase the hold that the case has on the bullet and may distort the case and reduce tension. My understanding is that the tension is the result of the difference between the inside diameter of the case and the outside diameter of the bullet.

 

[Zendude]

The problem is intermittent and I'm using mixed brass. Been using the dies for a couple of years without issue.

 

[Zendude]

You stated that "I tried to increase the tension until the copper plating on the bullet cracks." Do you mean that you increased the taper crimp until the plating cracked? Increasing the taper crimp will not increase the hold that the case has on the bullet and may distort the case and reduce tension. My understanding is that the tension is the result of the difference between the inside diameter of the case and the outside diameter of the bullet.

I think you are correct. There was a point beyond which increasing the taper had no effect.

 

[kcofohio]

The sizing die and bell mouth set up matters. Especially with the 380. Usually so little of the bullet is seated into the case. It is so easy to over bell mouth the case, that reduces the neck tension. Plus, the wall thickness of the 380 is about .003", or almost 25% thinner than the 9mm.

 

[243winxb]

Buy a Lee undersize die. http://leeprecision.com/undersize-sizing-die-380-auto.html

 

[lauderdale]

ok rc told me to work down the lee expander die w/emery cloth to get better neck tension just wanted to add that and bless his heart/ Had problems w/inside stepped cases /.380 from TJ conv***. M.Xmas all John.

 

[[email protected]]

Most likely certain headstamps are causing the problem. Like others said, get the lee undersized die. Midway usa also has them. Try a 223 rem sizer if you have one. It may be tighter than what you have.

 

[Walkalong]

RP is thin and might be the occasional problem. Nothing wrong with it, but it might be thin enough your sizer won't size it down enough. I had that problem with .45 ACP years ago. A tighter sizer fixed that.

Your expander could be too big, if so, polish it down. Size and seat a bullet in a piece of thin brass and see if neck tension is good.

Neck tension is what does the job, no amount of taper crimp will fix neck tension, and at some point will destroy it.

Here is a great post by jmorris explaining this. Post # 13.

 

[kcofohio]

ok rc told me to work down the lee expander die w/emery cloth to get better neck tension just wanted to add that and bless his heart/ Had problems w/inside stepped cases /.380 from TJ conv***. M.Xmas all John.

I would try that first before buying another sizing die. The charging/expander die tube is made of steel, not carbide. And usually less than 25 HRC from the ones I have messed with.

 

[SARuger]

RP brass won't work, everything else "380" loads nice through my LEE dies. I'm using Ranier lead free 100g. I test mine by putting a round in the inertia puller and if it takes less than 5 hard hits to move the bullet, then I worry about it. Never had an issue. I only load target ammo though, I don't carry it.

 

[Walkalong]

RP brass won't work, everything else "380" loads nice

Then the sizer is too large for RP. A tighter sizer would fix that, or you can just keep picking out RP brass.

I traded away a Mustang a long time ago but finally have a .380 again (Technically it's my wife's, as her dad gave it to her), and will soon be loading a batch using some range brass I picked up recently. I have about 200 cases, which is plenty for light practice with a small light carry gun.

 

[Curator]

Sort your brass by head-stamp. Reload each with its own die set-up. This is a good idea on All semi-auto pistol reloading. Get a Lee "Factory Crimp Die" and take your barrel out of your gun and do the "plunk test." You might need a slightly smaller neck expanding button or check your bullets as some made for the .380 are .354 to .355 and others are .355 and .356. This is a BIG difference with the .380ACP!

 

[Walkalong]

Sort your brass by head-stamp. Reload each with its own die set-up

I don't understand this. The sizer is going to do the same thing each time regardless of head stamp. The expander is going to be set so even the shorter brass gets belled enough (No more), and the seater is going to be set the same.

I do understand sorting by head stamp for consistency, but not having a different die set up for each. I just reset my RCBS .380 dies because I had to redo them for the LNL. I set them up and ill leave them that way for all headstamps. I found a few Blazer brass with the internal step and put them to the side for now. I'll be using 90 to 100 Gr bullets so I doubt the step will be an issue though.

 

[buck460XVR]

If the case brass is thinner in certain brands of brass, while it is getting sized the same outside as other brass, it is getting sized less on the inside. This means without changing the adjustment of the flare die, that flaring will be less than on the thinner brass also, so I see little help with the sorting of brass in regards to neck tension, when using the same sizing die. If one is not over-belling the thicker brass, they certainly aren't over-belling the thinner stuff.

As I said, Lee readily admitted to me that there are issues with their standard .380 sizing die. Since my problem with neck tension in .380 (two years ago), virtually every thread I have read on gun forums about problems with neck tension in .380 came from folks using Lee dies. That tells me something loud and clear. I thought I was saving monies by getting Lee dies in .380 in the first place. The price of the "U" die and it's shipping cost(not found everywhere) doubled the cost of the die set. If I had known, I would have gotten a different brand. The fact that Lee knows they have an issue, but won't admit it until folks have an issue, has put a bad taste in my mouth. Lee's advice to me was to buy the "U" die or only use specific brands of brass(and they couldn't/wouldn't tell me what brands to use). I had issues with virtually every brand of brass I used, and was not about to throw away 1000 pieces or more of good brass because of a bad die.

 

[lauderdale]

gotten a different brand

Went w/redding on my T-7 turret!

 

[Walkalong]

problems with neck tension in .380 came from folks using Lee dies

.32 ACP as well. Fortunately I went with RCBS first in .380 many years ago, but I went with Lee first in .32 ACP a few years ago. I finally got frustrated and ordered the whole RCBS .32 ACP set, which cured the problems.

 

[lauderdale]

I dint think learning, to put the Dillion/sdb into special assist? w/the proprietary 380 die set but will have to see? 1000 rnds. of 380 mix still is not on the cheep. That hurt to get in about 700/inside stepped cases when we were doing load work ups w/the g42. .380.

 

[kingmt]

Personally I usually find myself on the other spectrum. I switched over to Lee dies because I was using RCBS & found them to be over working the brass. I could have fixed then myself but at the time I sold them for more then the cost of new dies & replace them with new ones.

If this was only one out two I'd ether pull out the brass & consider it bad or would get a second die for this brass. If it was most head stamps I'd measure the die & if it was out of spec I'd ask Lee to replace it.

I've only had one tool from Lee that I considered out of spec & I might have been the cause of it myself. I had a mandrel that was only sizing 223 case mouths to about .222". I'd sized a bunch of steel cased & I never cleaned them. I explained everything to Lee & they thought even sizing steel cases that it was unacceptable for the mandrel to be undersized & sent me a replacement. I think even that die over sizes the neck on cases but I've never gotten around to boring it out a little.

 

[GooseGestapo]

It's the brass, and bullets.
I have problems with older Winchester brass and Hornady bullets.
I simply sort out the Winchester and relegate it to cast bullet duty.
Magtech and Fiocchi don't cause the problem.
My cast at .356" work in everything.