380 Power

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Wimpy round?

To all the people who exclaim how wimpy the .380 is, will you stand 21 feet away and let me shoot you with 8 rounds? Any 8 rounds, fmj, ball, whatever.

All you have to do is stand there and make the bullets bounce off of you and I will personally hand you $100, and throw the pistol in the river.

I don't care how powerful you think a round is or is not. At standard contact ranges inside 21 feet, even a sling shot is going to hurt.

So until someone proves to me that a .25 .22 or .380 will just bounce off, I will still feel safer than carrying nothing.

It ain't the pistol son, it's the man carrying the gun that you need to worry about.

I teach to shoot to the crotch, chest and face, there is a soft spot in there somewhere.
 
I occasionally cary a Colt pony .380 with Corbon Powerballs and I definately would't want to get hit with them. It is way better than nothing.
 
Is there a point to this thread? :barf:

Yes .380 is weaker than Trident Nuclear Missle Submarine and probally not a very good pick if you want to attack that evil moon in the sky.

I carry as much gun as I can. I'd open carry my AR to work if I could. Sometimes a .380 is what is required for concealment. A Ruger LCP is about as effective as a knife in a gun fight, but it's better than nothing.

If you can hit your target you'll be fine. But little .380 guns are hard to aim. Good thing most CCW incedents are less than 8 feet. Any pistol can be very weak and very deadly at the same time.
blah, blah, blah.......
 
rustygray: said:
To all the people who exclaim how wimpy the .380 is, will you stand 21 feet away and let me shoot you with 8 rounds? Any 8 rounds, fmj, ball, whatever.

All you have to do is stand there and make the bullets bounce off of you and I will personally hand you $100, and throw the pistol in the river.

I don't care how powerful you think a round is or is not. At standard contact ranges inside 21 feet, even a sling shot is going to hurt.

So until someone proves to me that a .25 .22 or .380 will just bounce off, I will still feel safer than carrying nothing.

It ain't the pistol son, it's the man carrying the gun that you need to worry about.

I teach to shoot to the crotch, chest and face, there is a soft spot in there somewhere.
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After reading through all of the posts in this thread, it appears that not one person has stated that the .380 will "bounce off" of anyone. Seems the major point of contention is that of "power" and the .380's minimal acceptability as an SD round. I doubt that anyone here is actually silly enough to let anyone take even one shot at them with any handgun for any amount of money, even a .25ACP.

A slingshot? Lemme guess....your primary carry? :scrutiny:

A slingshot is hardly a realistic option (and a rather "iffy" one at that) considering that a "threat" can still remain viable and perform dynamic actions even when experiencing extreme pain. Pain is an unreliable mechanism to rely upon for the sake of ending hostilities and CNS "hits" are probably the best bet. No guarantees.

Again, it's all about perspective, not the loss thereof.

:)
 
It's so funny how emotional responses work into these threads. I've got a buddy who scoffs at my Browning BDA and calls it a "parlor gun". He admitted he'd never fired one and refused all my offers to fire mine. "I don't want to shoot no sissy gun!" Finally after so much of my bugging him he rattled off a mag full. When he saw the splash they made in the river and felt the recoil he said, "Hmmm, they ain't as weak as I thought they were." He won't be buying one anytime soon but he came away with a different point of view. He still keeps a .455 Webley on the night stand.

I didn't buy my BDA because I love the .380 round, I bought because I love the gun and that's what it came in. I really enjoy shooting it. I don't see me ever enjoying shooting a little mini mite that I can only get 2 fingers around.
 
Pain is an unreliable mechanism to rely upon for the sake of ending hostilities and CNS "hits" are probably the best bet. No guarantees.
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I've often wondered about that. Have you ever noticed that on TV the BGs are usually DRT (with the occasional BG or monster that needs an extra head shot to finish him off at the end of the movie). Usually the only people that ever exhibit any pain is the American service man who is screaming "MEDIC! MEDIC" and he's generally been shot with a rifle.
I've personally seen 3 gunshot victims who were still alive. One was a guy that I happened to actually know who had been sniped from across a road going in to a convenience store by an irate husband. The guy put a .22LR in his thigh. He was in tremendous pain and as they were wheeling him to the ambulance I patted him gently on the foot and said, "Hang in there." He cussed me pretty good for that. Another one was a fellow with a .22 to the chest. He was alive but quiet, pretty much scared ----less.
The last was a gal that took a couple .357s to the chest. She didn't make it, but was pretty much half unconscious on the gurney.
 
I'm reminded of an old saying. . ."Beware the man (or woman) who owns but one gun. He, or she, may shoot it well."
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Hah, that pretty much applies to my father. He has two (G30 and LCP) and practices with the glock much more. He's not a very good shot with any of my guns, but man, he's pretty damn good with that glock. He can rapid fire that damn thing and end up with a tight grouping.

I would not want to be the guy who breaks into his house. :eek:
 
A slingshot is hardly a realistic option (and a rather "iffy" one at that)
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Come on a .50 Cal lead ball at what 150fps is at least as good as a 380 right :what:
 
Yeah, because in the wintertime: All of my friends would get together and play .380 tag... You just couldn't aim for the face :rolleyes:
Yes, it's a perfectly cromulent round. No, everything shot from a handgun is a compromise.
 
With todays modern ammo the 380 can be an effective round. I would prefer a larger caliber but until someone makes a compact 9mm similar in size to my LCP that costs under $500 I am willing to compromise.

I was very apprehensive at first when I bought my LCP because it was 380 but there are times when carrying a larger pistol just isn't practical.

With good ammo and adequate practice, the 380 can be an effective round.
 
I cant prodict the future , but I want to say that I am not going to discharge a firearm at someone unless they are within 10 feet of me. I also am not going to shoot someone If I can turn and run and get to a safe distance.

What I am saying is I aint going to shoot someone 25 yds away and if a 380 will go through a tree at 5 yds then it will go through a person.

Boy some people really hate 380's :what:
 
Check out Goldenloki's 380 gelatin tests using a P-3AT. http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/gel380acp.htm

There are some impressive results from Cor Bon, Gold Dot, Golden Saber and Hornady Critical Defense. Unfortunately he has not tested Buffalo Bore and a few other promising brands yet.

Most of the fmj rounds will easily penetrate more than enough to reach critical organs.
 
The .380 fits a niche and fills it well. I find it to be a great carry round in that I can fit it IN a pocket. I am on the edge about carrying at all. I live in a very low crime area, and even lower violent crime area. The job I work has a mild chance of needing the pistol, but it certainly is in a place where the idea of a firearm is taboo, though not illegal. It just works well to be able to toss the little guy in a pocket and be done with it. For people going a bit more into harms way I can see using a different round. It certainly isn't a be all end all. That said, for the guy on the edge who wants something to toss in a pocket the .380 is the most "power" I can get that fits the requirements. It wouldn't be my bear gun and it wouldn't be what I walk through the hood at night with, but it works for my every day small town, low crime life. Do what works for you.
 
According to my history reading, Gavrilo Princip killed the Archduke Ferdinand (and his wife) in Sarajevo with a Browning M1910 .380. I've seen pictures of it as it has recently resurfaced. It was in the care of a Catholic priest under the seal of the confessional until fairly recently.

For years I carried an FEG knockoff of a Walther PPK and never felt under gunned. Now I like to carry a .45 acp 1911. It certainly didn't HURT me to move to the .45 if I can handle it as well.

PS, my real concern would be ending the fight quickly, hopefully before anything bad happens to me or mine. My opinion is the .45 is better at that. Make no mistake though, .22's, .25's, .32's, and .380's are deadly weapons when they are pointed at you.
 
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mljdeckard said:
I'm not interested in the ER doc's opinion NEARLY as much as I'm interested in the coroner's opinion.

Most people hit by a single handgun bullet will RUN AWAY. This is unacceptable. If they aren't inclined to run away, they are still completely capable of continuing the fight.
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Not sure how things work in Utah, but here in Texas, once they stop attacking, you stop shooting or you need a good lawyer. Even if you're a cop, when the BG stops, you stop. Killing a suspect who has surrendered is a good way to lose your badge, your butt and several years of your life. The only difference is if they literally run away; a peace officer has the authority to shoot a fleeing felon whereas a citizen generally does not.

They have orders to shoot to wound.
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Who? Somebody whose superiors think Roy Rogers or the Lone Ranger are real? When you use lethal force, civilian or police officer, you are using it with the intent to kill. (Hint: That's why they call it "lethal" force.) "Shoot to wound" is a myth.
 
To all the people who exclaim how wimpy the .380 is, will you stand 21 feet away and let me shoot you with 8 rounds? Any 8 rounds, fmj, ball, whatever.
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Dumb argument. Question is, will it stop the fight in time? Maybe.... probably, even, but I figure 9 or .38 will do it quicker more of the time CNS hits not counted.

Fact is, I won't stand there and let you shoot me with 8 rounds out of a Daisy Red Rider, but that don't make it the ultimate killing machine or an adequate self defense tool. .If .380 is all I can carry, I'll carry it, but that don't happen too often. I haven't carried mine in several years.
 
I'd bet on shot placement every time. I'd also bet on the guy who drew his .380 and fired one practice round for every time someone said .380 was too weak on an internet forum. :D

I'd still prefer something bigger and more powerful of course....but if it has to fit in my pocket or go without, I'll take the .380 every time.
 
rswartsell - not to suggest you are incorrect but I thought the Archduke was killed with a Browning .32, though you may be correct. If he was, in fact, killed with a .32, your argument in defense of the .380 is even stronger. Either way, that little Browning pistol ended up killing a lot of people.
 
My wife has a Browning BDA .380 and I have two .380s, a Beretta 84FS Cheetah and a Walther PK380. The Beretta's a bit heavy with 14 rounds on board, but the Walther is a first-rate CCW. Nine rounds, functions flawlessly and flat enough to ride IWB with a loose shirt. Plus, it's priced just a little higher than the Ruger LCP and is a lot more fun to shoot.

That being said, when it's jacket weather, I have a very nice Beretta shoulder holster which carries the Cheetah perfectly.
 
rswartsell - not to suggest you are incorrect but I thought the Archduke was killed with a Browning .32, though you may be correct. If he was, in fact, killed with a .32, your argument in defense of the .380 is even stronger. Either way, that little Browning pistol ended up killing a lot of people.
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Not really. In fact, it's completely irrelevant. As MCgunner points out, the real question is how quickly will it incapacitate an attacker. Not "will the guy die." So the fact that Archduke Ferdinand was killed is truly and utterly meaningless.

Additionally, people were smaller back then. If I'm not mistaken, the archduke was only approx 5'5". So yeah, it's obvious that a smaller person can be killed with a smaller caliber. Same as you don't need a .45-70govt. if you are hunting rabbits!
But betting on an attacker being 5'6" so that the mousegun will be effective may not be the wisest of choices.

All that being said, I dearly love my LCP and it gets carried every time that I can't carry something bigger. I feel comfortable carrying it because I know that at SD distances, I can dump 7 rounds of .380 into a man's chest as fast as I can pull the trigger.
But I also realize that it has its limitations. Most critical of them, is that the potential to stop an attacker immediately is drastically reduced over something like my .40, or .357s.
The benefit for me, is that I can carry the LCP when the alternative would be to carry nothing. So given the options, the .380 still gives me a leg up. Just not as much of a leg as the bigger pistols.
 
A .380 is certainly better than no gun.
But there are quite a few small .38 revolvers and small 9mm autos out there, so the real question is "why not a .38 or 9mm?".
 
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