.380 vs 9mm

[Kano383]

I have recently tested Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator in .380, vs. ball ammo. Just on watermelons, but the results were eye-opening. Sorry, I can’t post the video directly, I get a “File too large” error.

I don’t care if watermelon is not exactly tissue-simulation material... Ball ammo punched a lil’ hole in the front, and popped a 1.5”-2” piece of crust off the back. Lehigh ammo blew the thing to pieces.

I am a firm believer in “solid” bullets with large meplats and similar shapes in rifles, having tested them on live large animals: Woodleigh Hydro, for example, create wound channels that are 2-3 times the caliber’s diameter, while going through bone and tough things like a solid does.

Considering the relatively low velocities of handgun ammo, the results I saw in my little backyard test were plenty enough to convince me that when I have to carry a .380, I better make sure that I have Lehigh, Underwood or similar design ammo in the mag.

All the tests I ever saw conducted with .380 HP reached conclusions to the tune of “The vast majority of HP do not expand reliably from a .380 if you vary the test medium and barriers”.

No such concerns with bullets that do not expand, but rely on their shape to have an effect on soft tissues - and go through hard stuff like FMJ would do, or better.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

.380ACP and 9mm Luger will put the same sized hole since the bullets are the same diameter (0.355").

.380ACP is perfectly adequate for a SD CCW gun.

Yes I realize that.
I thought I mentioned I usually carry a 45 ACP

I’ve also said I believe shot placement is the most important factor. 22LR can and does kill when hitting the right spot.

 

[Gary A]

While I love my better half's SIG P-238 (absolutely sweet trigger, tiny soft-shooting baby pistol), I'll go with my SIG P-938 if I'm carrying any sort of micro-pistol. The science as well as the documented results indicate that the 9mm is substantially superior to the .380 ACP.

I am using your quote to illustrate a point, not to criticize your choices, so please don’t take this as a personal slight. I understand people should use the most powerful caliber they can effectively manage, but it always bothers me a bit in these discussions when we talk about the .380 not being powerful enough to protect us, 9mm being the minimum, but we seem to accept it as at least minimally powerful enough to adequately protect our womenfolk. Seems to me it is either adequate for personal defense or it is not. It’s adequacy doesn’t change depending on which person it is defending. Personally, for my purposes, I have judged it adequate. I hope I’m right if it comes to that.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Carry:

1. the largest gun-
2. in the largest caliber-
3. that you can shoot accurately and reliably-
4. and actually carry wherever you go.

If that happens to be a .380, carry a .380.
Guns that get left in the safe or the night stand don't count.

 

[The Evangelist Cowboy]

I subscribe the Clint Smith thought of carrying, It isnt supposed to be comfortable its supposed to save your life, and can you shoot it effectively? I hate the .380 ACP, yep I said it, in guns that are small in my hands like the Ruger LCP or Taurus TCP it downright hurts to shoot it, and I have a .454 Casull, I can only get two fingers on the grip and its hard to control for me, move up the chain and you get .380's in a good size like the Beretta 84 or the Browning BDA you may as well carry a 9mm in a similar size fashion. It offers nothing in terms of ammo selection in fact it gives up alot of choices since I must be so picky on ammo selection for the .380, a small .38 conceals just as well, I personally can shoot a snub nose better than a pocket rocket auto, and although there is still some ammo you need to be mindful of in .38 its not near the point where I actually have to consider FMJ's just for it to penetrate deeply. If anything the .38s that dont expand already overpenetrate yet I see some test on meat where the .380 didnt (yes I know its "anecdotal" but still better than gel). Didn't mean to go on a rant, but I don't see any advantage for a .380 over a .38 or 9mm at all, cant use heavier bullets, has miserable speed in any loading (.38s can be loaded right). Sorry rant over.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Thanks for the video.

 

[Skgreen]

Lotta folks sweat and fret over the 'perfect' round,,,, As far as I know, there really isn't any one round that does everything exactly perfect in any type of PD situation you may encounter.

Practice, reliability, and your performance under pressure should all be higher on your list than fretting over layers of denim, different colors of gel, and which round went 3/4" deeper or wider than another on you-boob.

Sure, that kinda stuff may be ~fun~, and might even be somewhat educational in broad terms, but it takes more than just a magazine full of 'Supa-Killa Double-Death 9000" ammo to safeguard yourself and your loved ones.

 

[3Crows]

I am able to reliably pop soda cans at 25 yards with my S&W Body Guard .380. It is my favorite summer cloths, bicycle, running carry weapon. I am sure it and I with it will be capable of putting the hurt on pit bulls and nar-do-wells intent on providing me harm, assuming I cannot out run them and am cornered, otherwise I am fleet of foot even for an older fellow.

 

[RH45]

I consider all handgun calibers weak, after using several for hunting/shooting pests.
That said, the gun I CARRY most, is a S&W Bodyguard, .380, with a green, Crimson Trace laser, because it is so small & light. It is also the toughest pistol I own to shoot well, and actually hurts my hand more than my S&W .460.
2nd most carried pistol is a Kimber Solo. I shoot it MUCH better than I can shoot my Bodyguard, but, it's a little thicker, making it harder to conceal.
If I'm wearing a coat, chances are that I will have an M&P 9mm compact, in 9mm.
I USED to carry a full-size 1911, in .45, cocked & locked, but, even though sweeping off the safety is pretty much automatic, from years of shooting IDPA, and USPSA, for carry, I want a pistol that all I have to do is draw, and pull the trigger.

 

[Armored farmer]

All the tests I ever saw conducted with .380 HP reached conclusions to the tune of “The vast majority of HP do not expand reliably from a .380 if you vary the test medium and barriers”.

Test your ammo.
See for yourself.

I agree with @ Kano 383

 

[BigBL87]

I have both a 9mm (well, several of them) and a 380, and each serve their purpose. probably 95% of the time I can and do carry my 9mm Shield. However, when I can't carry IWB, my Shield is a bit too large for pocket carry so I bought a Ruger LCP II. I prefer something more powerful, but having a 380 is better than having nothing.

 

[Tallball]

If I can't carry anything larger than my tiny 380, I carry my tiny 380. It will do its job if I do mine. I prefer having one of my larger-caliber handguns on me, but that's not always possible.

 

[sparkyv]

The XTP and HydroShock are both excellent projectiles. Load up carry the best you can afford.

 

[amd6547]

I’m glad to have a P3AT in pocket sometimes, it’s a comforting presence.

When the Israeli surplus Beretta 84’s came around at a bargain price, I had to buy one...It was a pistol I had wanted when I was young, but couldn’t afford.
While I hadn’t considered it for any kind of serious use, shooting it changed my mind. It’s size is just right for IWB carry, it is completely reliable, and accurate beyond belief. Points like a finger, for me. I feel pretty well armed with 14rds of good ammo, or even decent FMJ. Currently, I have it loaded with Underwood +P XTP’s, which it shoots very well.
So, while I could carry my well used and beloved Glock 26, I sometimes carry the Beretta 84F, and it also gets some use around the house as a home defense pistol.

 

[Deanimator]

I would NEVER carry a .32acp handgun for self-defense.

I would carry a .380acp, but only under circumstances where I couldn't carry anything bigger than a Walther PPK.

As small as 9x19mm handguns are today, I don't see much reason to carry a .380acp gun unless it needs to be REALLY small.

See me when there's a 147gr. .380 load...

 

[bannockburn]

amd6547

So, while I could carry my well used and beloved Glock 26, I sometimes carry the Beretta 84F, and it also gets some use around the house as a home defense pistol.

That was the dilemma I had with my Beretta Model 84: kind of big for concealed carry (back then if I was going to carry something with a double stack mag it would be a 9mm., like a Browning Hi-Power). More often than not I carried a Colt Combat Commander in .45 ACP. But I thought the Model 84 made for a decent home defense gun and used it in that role for a number of years.

 

[frisbee2421]

http://abc11.com/raleigh-police-woman-shot-man-who-was-attempting-to-rob-her/3395740/

***Ruger LCP*** stopped him in his tracks.
The .380 ACP is often underrated as a defensive round. It was never intended to perform at 9mm standards. With that being said, I have seen several people that were killed by this round.

 

[JFrame]

http://abc11.com/raleigh-police-woman-shot-man-who-was-attempting-to-rob-her/3395740/

***Ruger LCP*** stopped him in his tracks.
The .380 ACP is often underrated as a defensive round. It was never intended to perform at 9mm standards. With that being said, I have seen several people that were killed by this round.

Sounds like the assailant was escalating from burglary to armed robbery, and probably worse, given the trajectory of his "career" -- good riddance!

Shot placement certainly worked here...

 

[Kendahl]

The Raleigh police appear to respect self defense.