38's?

[deltastorm11]

In your opinion do you think a 38 special revolver is a good home defense weapon?Also what is your opinon on the staement "Some people might say that the 9mm isnt powerful enough but the bad guy wont know the diffrence between a 9mm and a .45 when two of them are in his chest"?

 

[newdude]

With the correct ammunition, yes, it is very good. As for the statement, it is generally accepted now that with modern high quality hollow point bullets, the gap between the 9mm and .45 is very small indeed.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

I'd say it's good. Although I am usually one of the people saying "here's a real life scenario where a bigger caliber was needed", I think sometimes a .38 might even be better than a .44 or .45. It might be better to use .38s than .357s because of the recoil, light, and noise, and better to use .38 than .45 ACP or .44 special because a second shot will be faster.

Also what is your opinon on the staement "Some people might say that the 9mm isnt powerful enough but the bad guy wont know the diffrence between a 9mm and a .45 when two of them are in his chest"?

My opinion is that the .45 will probably result in a faster stop, and if the round fails to expand, the .45 would be better. For someone new, or that doesn't get to practice much, a 9mm is probably better.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

+1 to jimbo5

 

[Lewis130]

There are better calibers, but there are much worse too. I completely agree on the 'unload the whole damn gun in his chest' policy, the best way to make sure a caliber does its job.

 

[crazy-mp]

I have a S&W model 10 with a set of crimson trace laser grips loaded with some 158 gr. HP's next to the bed, and in my truck. I didn't know how well I would be able to see the sights with someone in my house in the middle of the night and after the muzzle flash it would be nearly impossible to see the sights. So the gun got some laser grips. Plus if my wife ever had to use the gun it would be a lot less complicated than a 1911 or some other semi auto with an external safety. Then there’s also the argument that if one round does not go off you just pull the trigger again and there is another round ready to go. With a semi-au.... yeah here comes the debates


But that's just one good ole boys opinion!

 

[Blakenzy]

IMHO

In your opinion do you think a 38 special revolver is a good home defense weapon?

If you can hit what you are supposed to... YES

what is your opinon on the staement "Some people might say that the 9mm isnt powerful enough but the bad guy wont know the diffrence between a 9mm and a .45 when two of them are in his chest"?

If the bullets hit what they are supposed to... there is no difference

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement... aaand shot placement.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

If the bullets hit what they are supposed to... there is no difference

I'm going to have to disagree here. First, that depeds on where they are supposed to. Even if they hit a vital organ, the .45 would probably result in a faster stop If they didn't, the .45 would be more likely to stop, and in some cases a .45 might hit something vital while the 9mm wouldn't. And I'm a big 9mm fan.

 

[BlindJustice]

SInce I have:the following
1911 5" Bbl. Stainless STeel
& 625 5" Bbl. both in .45 ACP
CZ 75B in 9mm Luger
S&W 686P 4" Bbl.
S&W 60-16 in .357 Mag 3" Bbl.

Home Defense loads - I try to stay near or below the
SPeed of sound. My shooting partner was in the next stall
at the range with a wall to his right, I was on his left. I was
shooting my 1911, then switched to .357 Mag 140 gr. Hornady
XTP rated at 1450fps - Big increase in noise/blast, muzzle flash
out to 3 feet beyond the muzzle, and Ralph said he felt the shock
wave off the wall. So, HD loads, most often Double Tap with Speer
Gold Dots but sometimes have SPeer brand stuff - I live 25 miles from
the ATK plant in Lewiston. ID.

.45 ACP 200 gr. JHP @ 1100 FPS
9mm 147 gr. JHP @ 1124 FPS
.38 Special +P 125 gr. 1,150 FPS

I'm comfortable with any of them but the Semi-Autos
are MY preference. THe CZ 75B has 1300 rounds through
it and nary a bobble. THe 1911 - carried one in the USN and
it's manual of Arms is imprinted in my lizard brain, but needs to
be cleaned more often than the 75B The 625 is kinda big and
heavy, the 60 is handy but limited to 5 rounds, the 686P - maybe
it's just me but I'll keep trying with it - I started out with a S&W
model 18 years ago in my teens and ai I practice DA Double Taps.

I also saw a chart of velocity loss with shorter and shorter barrel
length, - tester was cutting down a T/C Contender barrel. By the time
a .357 Mag goes to 3" or shorter with the 125 gr. bullet weight it doesn't
have much velocity advantage over a 124 gr. 9mm I'm also a believer in
simple physics of a heavier object i.e. bullet retaining it's momentum longer
than a lighter object - if you want to argue about that go argue
and disprove Newton's laws of motion.

Randall

 

[Trebor]

A .38 is fine loaded with modern HP or JHP ammo (no solid RN).

What's more important then caliber selection, and even ammo selection, is your ability to use the firearm. If you are comfortable with your ability to use a .38, it will be fine.

 

[BlindJustice]

Revolver versus Semi-Auto Reliability

My experience, my cZ 75B and the model 60 - 100%

1911 seems to have settled down after about 450-550 rounds

625 - has the occaisional dud hit on the primer, and it had a
Master revolver Action Job - this also happened with the 686P in
Single Action after installing some tight fit Hogue Rosewood grips
they both took trips to the gunsmith who said the main springs had
backed off. Oh, and another time the 625 - I fired a shotshell in it
and the firing pin got stuck in the primer, first time I had a gun inoperative
leaving the range.

If I had to arm someone I was with who wasn't that experienced with
a handgun it would be the 60 or 686P with .38 Special - guess I should get
a box or two of the 158 gr. SWC "FBI Load."

O.P. - a used Model 15 K-38 Combat Masterpiece is a good .38 SPecial
capable of +P, in excellent condition would be a great HD
handgun if the user does their part - practice practice practice at
the range - doesn't matter what you use if you cant' hit the target

R-

 

[CU74]

I DO think the .38 Special revolver is a good HD firearm - that's what is on my bedside night-stand. I chose .38 Special hollow-points over .357 Magnum because I don't want to deal with the distraction of the .357's louder noise and greater muzzle flash.

IMHO, 9mm vs 45 is just caliber-war fodder. I have .38, .357, 7.62x25, 9mm and 45 to choose from. I choose six rounds of .38 Special, my wife prefers 15 rounds of 9mm.............

 

[Knightrider03m]

For home protection, I would go with something bigger like a .40 or a .45.

 

[Knightrider03m]

Or better yet, the Judge that have both .410 and .45

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Other than a shotgun loaded with #4 Buckshot I feel a 4" .38 Special revolver is probably one of the best home SD weapons available.

 

[scythefwd]

A .38 sp +p+ is getting into baby .357 territory (starting loads for .357 can be lower than a max +p+ load in .38sp) and I have never heard anyone say a .357 was too anemic to use in home SD.

I use hot .38 sp's, but they are lighter than +p's and I am fully confident in my ammo choice. Yes, the .38 is a sufficient round if you are a sufficient shooter.

 

[scythefwd]

A .38 sp +p+ is getting into baby .357 territory (starting loads for .357 can be lower than a max +p+ load in .38sp) and I have never heard anyone say a .357 was too anemic to use in home SD.

I use hot .38 sp's, but they are lighter than +p's and I am fully confident in my ammo choice. Yes, the .38 is a sufficient round if you are a sufficient shooter.

 

[Deanimator]

A quality .38 Special revolver is a perfectly adequate home defense firearm.

They're simple, reliable, [usually] accurate, and with the proper ammunition, effective.

I use the Federal "FBI" load in all of my .38s and .357s.

 

[JFrame]

For home protection, I would go with something bigger like a .40 or a .45.

Just out of curiousity -- why does it have to be "bigger"?

How about .357 magnum or .357 SIG?

 

[BlindJustice]

scythefwd oopined:
"A .38 sp +p+ is getting into baby .357 territory (starting loads for .357 can be lower than a max +p+ load in .38sp) and I have never heard anyone say a .357 was too anemic to use in home SD."


In all due respect, nope not true.

.357 Mag is 35,000 PSI begin point
.38 special +P is 21,000 PSI
.38 SPecial is 19,000 PSI

Look at Speers offering wtih the Gold Dot 125 gr. JHPs
muzzzle vel.
.38 Special +P = 945 FPS
.367 Magnum = 1450 FPS

I would bet other manufacturers of .38 Special +P
are somewhere in between 945 and the DT velocity.

Also, I have the .38 SPecial +P from double Tap
that are rated at 1175 FPS with 125 gr. Gold DOt JHPs

No way is .38 Special +P worthy of the nickname
Baby .357 Mag.

Randall

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Trebor: "A .38 is fine loaded with modern HP or JHP ammo (no solid RN)."

(1) Don't rule out good old reliable LRN. In a built-up area, if you cannot select a LOS/LOF which minimizes overpenetration or even escape of round, that LRN round will go SPLAT when it impacts a stop. They sometimes make a real hash of an assailants innards as well, but see (2) below.

(2) .38 LWC is even better than LRN. Wound channels resemble a Kentucky limestone cavern.

(3) Then there are .38 shot shells. Prima facie!

 

[Brian Dale]

Yes, I do think that a .38 special revolver is a good home defense weapon.

I don't recommend the following, posted above:

I completely agree on the 'unload the whole damn gun in his chest' policy, the best way to make sure a caliber does its job.

It's a wrong notion, and it's an extremely unhelpful one to post in a public forum.

Defensive shootings are just that: the goal is to stop an attack and no more.

 

[TheVirginian]

I agree with Brian Dale. Any .30 cal or larger size is sufficient. I have carried .38, .380, 9mm, & .45 whenever I went to shoot and keep one of those handy at home. It doesn't matter whether it's a .38 revolver or a .45 auto IMO. One pop from any of those will create an instant attitude adjustment from anyone who might be found in the wrong home. The mere sight or sound of one will cause even the most stupid offender to retreat.

Now, I suppose there could be an argument for the deranged attacker or drug laden maniac who wants to rip you apart with his hands more than relieve you of a possession or two, but it would seem more the stuff of nightmares than reality. I also agree with Blakenzy in that placement is everything. You should be able to get the first shot on target and end the conflict. if you don't find that to be effective, it doesn't take more than 1/2 a second to deliver another reminder to the same spot.

Personally, I can't ever imagine shooting at anyone who was less than ten feet away. That would simply be evil. Even if someone does want to rob me, I would be happy to see them leave rather than to send someone who has made a bad decision to their maker and be forced to clean up afterwards. In the 10' or less situation, I would likely hit 100% dead center, every time, without any sights. If the target was moving at 10' and I was off a fraction, then at 8', it would end. It isn't rocket science at those distances. I wouldn't want to be shot with a BB gun and although I'd not be roaming around a strangers home, If I found myself in that position and given the opportunity, I'd rather leave the scene than pick even a .177 or a .22 from my flesh.
-Bill

 

[JImbothefiveth]

.38 sp +p+ is getting into baby .357 territory

And since there is no standard for +p+, it probably shouldn't be fired out of a .38 revolver.

Just out of curiousity -- why does it have to be "bigger"?

How about .357 magnum or .357 SIG?

I think some people don't like the noise of .357

Don't rule out good old reliable LRN. In a built-up area, if you cannot select a LOS/LOF which minimizes overpenetration or even escape of round, that LRN round will go SPLAT when it impacts a stop. They sometimes make a real hash of an assailants innards as well, but see (2) below.

A LRN would probably go through more walls than a hollowpoint, and my guess is that it would be similiar to a 9mm FMJ. Low stopping power, danger to innocents.

(2) .38 LWC is even better than LRN. Wound channels resemble a Kentucky limestone cavern.

Still a small one, and I doubt it would have much stopping power.

(3) Then there are .38 shot shells. QUOTE]Small birdshot won't make it far enough to reliably stop. It probably won't work even with a face shot.

agree with Brian Dale. Any .30 cal or larger size is sufficient. I have carried .38, .380, 9mm, & .45 whenever I went to shoot and keep one of those handy at home.

What do you base this observation off of?

It doesn't matter whether it's a .38 revolver or a .45 auto IMO.

According to Marshal and Sanow, and more scientifically, the FBI, it does.

One pop from any of those will create an instant attitude adjustment from anyone who might be found in the wrong home. The mere sight or sound of one will cause even the most stupid offender to retreat.

And what if they don't, or they are also armed?

Now, I suppose there could be an argument for the deranged attacker or drug laden maniac who wants to rip you apart with his hands more than relieve you of a possession or two, but it would seem more the stuff of nightmares than reality. I also agree with Blakenzy in that placement is everything.

The FBI was in a shootout with some bank robbers, who were hit multiple times and still didn't stop. They were hit in the arm and the rounds were stopped. If they had a better round, it would have hit a lung. They were not on drugs, just adrenalen. (I know I didn't spell that right.)

Personally, I can't ever imagine shooting at anyone who was less than ten feet away. That would simply be evil.

Why? My house has distances of up to 15 yards or so. Also, there is a general standard that someone with a knife can close 21 feet of distance before you can draw a gun and shoot, and that still doesn't take in to account how long it will take them to stop.

Even if someone does want to rob me, I would be happy to see them leave rather than to send someone who has made a bad decision to their maker and be forced to clean up afterwards.

I would too. However, if they are in my house, and don't flee or surrender when they know I am armed, they are probably trying to kill me. And if they have a gun too, I fell like I just can't risk trying to scare them.

In the 10' or less situation, I would likely hit 100% dead center, every time, without any sights. If the target was moving at 10' and I was off a fraction, then at 8', it would end. It isn't rocket science at those distances.

Would the attacker stop before it became a struggle for your firearm?

I wouldn't want to be shot with a BB gun and although I'd not be roaming around a strangers home, If I found myself in that position and given the opportunity, I'd rather leave the scene than pick even a .177 or a .22 from my flesh.

I would too. The question is, do you trust it to stop an attacker?

Still, I think a .38 revolver is good.

 

[scythefwd]

blindjustice,
The .38 +p isn't up to .357 for the most part, you are correct. I said the .38 sp +p+, which has no upper limit, and theoretically can be loaded to the same pressures as a .357. They aren't recommended for use in anything but a .357 gun either. You will notice that the data you posted is max pressures. Max pressures do not tell the whole story. Max pressures do not tell velocity, nor ftlbs of energy. Max pressures are not obtained by using starting loads, which I was using (the .38 +p max loads does overlap .357 starting loads), and sit around:

.357 MAG (never exceed load for this powder)
146 Gr Jacketed bullet
5.6 gr IMR PB
885 fps
36000 cup

.38 sp +p (never exceed load for this powder)
146 Gr Jacketed bullet
12.0 gr h4227
1085 fps
18400 cup
Load data came from Modern Reloading Second Edition by Richard Lee
Yes, the .357 is 200 fps slower (making it less powerful) than the .38 SP +p in this very particular case.
Don't get me wrong, the .357 can shoot much faster for the same weight, it doesn't have any heavier bullets that it can fire, and I did cherry pick data (the slowest max load for a .357 vs the fastest max load for .38 sp +p) to prove my point. I did at least keep the bullet weight and type the same. For same bullet types, I can find data to fit this template for every bullet weight up to 200 gr lead where I have load data for both calibers (I don't have load data for .38 sp +p in 200 gr jacketed and I don't have load data period for over 200 gr projectiles). I am fully aware that the .357 is a superior round, but my statement was true.
Jimbothefiveth,
I had assumed the OP was talking about the .38 round and would use anything that could fire it (including a .357). Upon rereading it, the +p round is still a good round out of a .38 sp arm and it does encroach on the very beginning of the .357 Magnum speeds.