.38sp +p LSWCHP ammo

[noname1]

I was looking at the Federal and Winchester web sites, and it looks to me like neither one of these companies is making 158 gr .38sp +p LSWCHP ammo. Remington is making it, but not the other two. Can someone verify this?

 

[mine]

Winchester

 

[Jim March]

Federal's version is out of production - no loss, as it sucked (wasn't fast enough).

Winnie's is still in production, and is the most common brand of 158 LSWC-HP+P found at gun shops/shows/etc, in my experience (but that may vary by geography and distributor trends?).

The Remmies are less often seen, but are supposedly a hair hotter than the Winnies. Not by enough to avoid Wins (unlike Federal!).

You may also encounter old-stock Cor-Bons. These are HOTHOTHOT as hell, not for weak guns, but grab 'em if you think you and your gun can cope. They'll ROCK in a small 357.

 

[noname1]

Thanks, guys. I looked at the link and saw the Winchesters. I guess because it doesn't say "HP" outright on the box, I wasn't sure that it was.

 

[Erich]

Timely topic for me

. . . since I just ten minutes ago got back from the shop picking up my special order Remington .38+P 158-grain LSWCHPs!

 

[mine]

my local gun shop still has boxes of the cor-bons. i think they are marked +p+ on the box, but just +p on the headstamp...if i remember correctly. i love shooting these out of my 640-1. i'm surprised that there was not enough demand to continue making them...unless they were discontinued because they were too hot to handle in certain models.

 

[stephen_g22]

Are the bullets 100% lead or are they half jacketed in copper? I have seen the half jacketed bullets but never all lead bullets.

Thanks

 

[Johnny Guest]

Interesting - - -

The product illustrated there is the LSWC SOLID, not the hollow point. But it seems the same product code, SPD, as the last box of WIN LSWCHP+P I bought, maybe six months or a year ago.

Last couple of boxes I bought were the equivalent Remington product. Rem also makes the non-HP LSWC.

stephen_g22 - - Yup, just plain ol' lead, soft as can be, no jacket, no plating. Hard to believe, huh?

Best,
Johnny

 

[Lone Star]

Johnny-

Not hard to believe when it's time to clean the bore after shooting more than a few!

Actually, I wish they'd load these with a gas check, to see it it would preclude heavy leading. But the ammo companies seem determined to force us to buy more expensive JHP ammo, and the lead HP seems on its way out. Pity. It is just what was needed!

I saw a lot of chrono tests over the years, and Federal was always right up next to Winchester, velocity-wise. Remington is a little slower, but used a softer alloy. The Federal No. 38G has always been exceptionally accurate in my .38's and a .357 M66.

Lone Star

 

[Majic]

Actually standard velocity works just fine with 158gr LHPSWC. The swaged bullet is soft enough to expand without the added speed and the weight is sufficient for penetration. Not to mention the reduced stress placed on the revolver and virtually no leading of the bore.

 

[Jim March]

Majic: from a 4" or 6" barrel, yes, maybe a standard pressure might work.

In a 2" snubbie, things are so way marginal velocity-wise that I'd stick with +P if the gun can handle at least limited amounts.

 

[proco]

Majic,

Do you know who makes a factory standard velocity load of 158gr LHPSWC? Everything I see is +P.

Thanks,

- Pat

 

[Majic]

As of today no one sells the standard pressure loads. Winchester sold them in the past, but it seems any LHPSWC is being pushed from the market.
Though not a SWC, the old Federal Nyclad was an excellent choice. It was a sad day when Federal decided to drop the Nyclad line. I have shot plenty of it and have some still left, but it's cherished now.

 

[sm]

I still have some Win. X38WCPSV 158 gr LSWC in Standard Velocity. I didn't realize they had stopped .

Now Fiocchi had / has a load :
http://www.fiocchiusa.com/centerfire.htm

38E - 38 Special - 148 gr Jacketed Hollowpoint -820 MV- 225 ft lbs energy.

Been quite awhile since I used...I was out town ( TX or FL - forget) anyway I was using 4" K frames, model 10 and 19 . NOT sure if this falls into Standard velocity. Great loads, little muzzle flash at night, accurate...I liked.

 

[Majic]

They still make that load SM, but it's not hollow pointed.

 

[Chip Dixon]

never seen lead ammo?

I keep some 150 grain lead for winter carry, and +P JHP for summer carry. The other stuff is for plinking, and general use. I got the 2 ammo boxes backwards on the far left, but if you look on the far right, there's some old winchester lead sitting next to the model 10 and holster leather.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Check this out.

Buffalo Bore introduced a .38 Special +P load. 158 grain LSWCHP. Muzzle velocity is advertised as 1,000 feet per second out of a two inch barrel. Good stuff, if it works as advertised! Somebody should buy some and chrono it. I would, but I have neither a .38 nor a Chronograph.

$19.99 for a box of 20 rounds. A little pricey, but it might be what you're looking for. Recently, Buffalo Bore has done a lot of work into making loads that produce performance at lower pressures, it would seem.

The new buffalo Bore Heavy 38 SPL+p ammo will maximize the effectiveness of your 38 SPL revolver. All velocities are taken from S&W J frame revolvers with 2 inch barrels. The powders are flash suppressed so as to not hinder your vision should you be required to drop the hammer in low light.

Item 20A/20 is the terrific SOFT lead semi wad cutter hollow cavity bullet, however we've added a gas check to stop the leading that this load typically causes with other manufacturers version of this bullet.

Item 20B/20 uses the low velocity (LV) Gold Dot bullet that is designed to expand at as little as 800 fps, so will get expansion out of very short barrels.

Whether you prefer the very soft semi wadcutter lead bullet, or a very soft JHC, (jacketed hollow cavity) these HVY 38 SPL+p loads will turbo charge your 38 SPL revolver.

 

[Erich]

Unless they've changed something in the last week, it won't be released until this summer (tho they're taking orders now).

Gotta love Tim at Buffalo Bore.

 

[Jim March]

GO TIM! Heck ya. Jeez, I said *years* ago that somebody needed to optimize loads for 2" 38snubbies, and now both Tim at BB and Speer with that 135 have answered in spades.

I would *assume* at this point, without NEAR enough data for final conclusions, that the 135 Gold Dots at around 85fps will recoil less than those Buffalo Bores, and for VERY lightweight "Unobtanium" S&Ws the 158 above might have trouble with bullet pulling...hence the 135s might prove to be the answer. But in heavier guns, like maybe a Model 10, the Bufallo Bore 158 is the new king 'o thee hill .

Optional: take that BB 158 and fill the nosecone with epoxy. You now have a 48-state woods load. It ain't adequate, but it's the best available for 38 guns and might get you out of a critter jam. Stress "might". 'Specially if you've got a longer tube than 2'.

 

[Jim March]

Another thing: look at those BB energy numbers. 351ft/lbs for the new 158 gaschecked monster.

That puts our snubbies DEEP into 9mm full-size-gun energy numbers.

Ohhhh ya.

 

[Nightcrawler]

If you like that, check out their .357 stuff. Clicky.

Our 357 mag. ammo adds more power than ever before to the 357 mag. This ammo is safe to shoot in ANY all steel 357 revolver—this includes J frames. This ammo is no harder on your gun than any other normal 357 ammo. Please don’t phone us and ask if this ammo is safe in your gun. It is, providing your gun is in safe condition for use with any normal 357 ammo.

We don’t recommend this ammo to fired in super light alloy revolvers as bullets may jump crimp under recoil, but the ammo itself wont hurt these super light weight revolvers. These revolvers are simply so light that the recoil is severe enough to cause crimp jump.

The below velocities are offered so that you can see what guns/barrel lengths give what velocities with this new 357 mag. ammo. You’ll notice that new S&W revolvers with short barrels are often shooting faster than older S&W revolvers with longer barrels. The new S&W revolvers are very good and are made with equipment that makes them more consistent and faster than the S&W revolvers of yesteryear.

Make special note of the Marlin 1894, 18.5 inch barrel velocities. Item 19C/20, supercedes 30-30 energies!!!

1. 3 inch S&W J frame

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Gold Dot = 1398 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Gold Dot = 1476 fps

2. 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Gold Dot = 1485 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Gold Dot = 1603 fps

3. 5 inch S&W model 27

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1380 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Gold Dot = 1457 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Gold Dot = 1543 fps

4. 6 inch Ruger GP 100

a. Item 19D/20-125gr. Gold Dot = 1707 fps

5. 18.5 inch Marlin 1894

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Gold Dot = 2153 fps---- Can you believe this?!!!
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Gold Dot = 2298 fps---- Or this?!!!


Looks like good stuff, though you're going to pay for it. Still, I'd like to try it out.

 

[Erich]

I carry their 158-grain .357 load in my 2 3/4" Security Six.

Gotta love it.

 

[Catbird]

Majic commented:

...Though not a SWC, the old Federal Nyclad was an excellent choice. It was a sad day when Federal decided to drop the Nyclad line...

FWIW, www.ammoman.com has the Federal .38 SPECIAL +P+, 125gr. Nyclad Hollow Point ammunition. I received 250 rounds of it today. It was a tad pricey @ $89 delivered.

 

[DBR]

Natchez has Winchester 158gr SWCLHP. Box of 50rds is around $18 plus shipping. Ammoman has both std velocity and +P Nyclad 125gr LHP.

 

[MR.G]

Zero ammunition still sells new and reloaded .38 special SWHP. Find them under ROZE Dist. I bought 500 rounds recently, and shipping was free. Good prices too.